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+Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 17:42:42 +0100 (CET)

+From: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>

+To: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>

+Message-ID: <MrhJf_p--3-2@tutanota.de>

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+Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>

+Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Bitcoin Advent Calendar] Derivatives and Options

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+

+------=_Part_128950_1490909029.1640364162570

+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+

+Hi Jeremy,

+

+> Wheres the info come from? Well, multiple places. We could get it from a =

+third party (maybe using anattestation chain of some sort?), or there are c=

+ertain ways it could beself-referential (like for powswap <https://powswap.=

+com>).

+

+> Now let=E2=80=99s define a threshold oracle =E2=80=93 we wouldn=E2=80=99t=

+ want to trust just onelousy oracle, so let=E2=80=99s trust M out of N of t=

+hem!

+

+Similar approach is used in discreet log contracts for multi oracles. There=

+ is even a project for P2P derivatives but it was not used for any real tra=

+des on mainnet or further developed. What difference would OP_CTV make in t=

+his project if its implemented in Bitcoin?

+https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-client

+

+https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-server

+

+https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-oracle

+

+> Does this NEED CTV?

+No, not in particular. Most of this stuff could be done with online signer =

+server federation between you and counterparty. CTV makes some stuff nicer =

+though, and opens up new possibilities for opening these contracts unilater=

+ally.

+

+Nicer? How would unilateral derivatives work because my understanding was t=

+hat you always need a peer to take the other side of the trade. I wish we c=

+ould discuss this topic in a trading community with some Bitcoiners that ev=

+en had some programming knowledge.

+

+Derivatives are interesting and less explored or used in Bitcoin projects. =

+They could be useful in solving lot of problems.

+

+

+--=20

+Prayank

+

+A3B1 E430 2298 178F

+

+------=_Part_128950_1490909029.1640364162570

+Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+

+<html>

+ <head>

+ <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-8=

+">

+ </head>

+ <body>

+<div>Hi Jeremy,<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt;=

+ Wheres the info come from? Well, multiple places. We could get it from a t=

+hird party (maybe using an

+attestation chain of some sort?), or there are certain ways it could be

+self-referential (like for <a href=3D"https://powswap.com" rel=3D"noopener =

+noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">powswap</a>).<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=

+</div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Now let=E2=80=99s define a threshold oracle =

+=E2=80=93 we wouldn=E2=80=99t want to trust just one

+lousy oracle, so let=E2=80=99s trust M out of N of them!<br><br>Similar app=

+roach is used in discreet log contracts for multi oracles. There is even a =

+project for P2P derivatives but it was not used for any real trades on main=

+net or further developed. What difference would OP_CTV make in this project=

+ if its implemented in Bitcoin?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=

+=3D"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-client<br></div>=

+<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivat=

+ives/p2pderivatives-server<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=

+"auto">https://github.com/p2pderivatives/p2pderivatives-oracle<br></div><di=

+v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; Does this NEED CTV?<br></di=

+v><div dir=3D"auto">No, not in particular. Most of this stuff could be done=

+ with online signer server federation between you and counterparty. CTV mak=

+es some stuff nicer though, and opens up new possibilities for opening thes=

+e contracts unilaterally.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=

+auto">Nicer? How would unilateral derivatives work because my understanding=

+ was that you always need a peer to take the other side of the trade. I wis=

+h we could discuss this topic in a trading community with some Bitcoiners t=

+hat even had some programming knowledge.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=

+iv><div dir=3D"auto">Derivatives are interesting and less explored or used =

+in Bitcoin projects. They could be useful in solving lot of problems.<br></=

+div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br></div><div>-- <br></div><div>Praya=

+nk<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A3B1 E430 2298 178F<br></div> =

+ </body>

+</html>

+

+------=_Part_128950_1490909029.1640364162570--

+