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| author | Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> | 2015-05-08 11:49:48 -0400 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-05-08 15:50:15 +0000 |
| commit | bc7d846bd7528c1d8b66edf6eeeea362981a34e7 (patch) | |
| tree | f6b1689521b4136f7ba3cd47bb8571ad5ad437e2 | |
| parent | 4ae49af25188eaa2988f95d6b46a051369ce1580 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-bc7d846bd7528c1d8b66edf6eeeea362981a34e7.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-bc7d846bd7528c1d8b66edf6eeeea362981a34e7.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase
| -rw-r--r-- | 7c/f6d9a355b2386de573c559f0a3bed7473a423c | 192 |
1 files changed, 192 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/7c/f6d9a355b2386de573c559f0a3bed7473a423c b/7c/f6d9a355b2386de573c559f0a3bed7473a423c new file mode 100644 index 000000000..07766256d --- /dev/null +++ b/7c/f6d9a355b2386de573c559f0a3bed7473a423c @@ -0,0 +1,192 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <jgarzik@bitpay.com>) id 1YqkXX-0000zi-K2 + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Fri, 08 May 2015 15:50:15 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com + designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.214.171; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com; + helo=mail-ob0-f171.google.com; +Received: from mail-ob0-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]) + by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1YqkXW-0000Ym-Ev + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Fri, 08 May 2015 15:50:15 +0000 +Received: by obblk2 with SMTP id lk2so58429421obb.0 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Fri, 08 May 2015 08:50:08 -0700 (PDT) +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20130820; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date + :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; + bh=OpBNPBVeYjOrZ3hNCEU8m2aRuyB15S2bogKaUHoNnHs=; + b=XINeZFx3q5X/n8EH+oDKHcr/fcxVtEgzL1RoEiJ72vkcCE9mypAFgkwO0bqbWl0fur + 10XpfANrxYio6RpIaP/Y5KjoygoAoxjxhfaVfRWC7SpAt+akgqfLoHHGUzQZKcNMLbnb + 4roh9rW3/exTdldPypkHKJZpJQhDXmeBVDCQ7qOPAn5O25UFxNKuRJ3EQ7m7Kot6wfCp + AUzv0dmjqVRdX3wDvuOINDTiOi40nOOVgDwaPHqWojoh2Xgb+uG3CinjTLTKmSZNZjrZ + Z7CPcvqZukJ84wzwZ3J92IhCYaB9z3qF4cbDrxOrJEafDirlAT4V6thClTPWKXnh8pha + a23w== +X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnj2h++UdhtrTX5ypPCmKBxt0aqMSfbVtJS/5lOI7EeMemYrLTkkzuslNG+lDEgP9DPMOXo +X-Received: by 10.60.199.10 with SMTP id jg10mr3647629oec.54.1431100208774; + Fri, 08 May 2015 08:50:08 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Received: by 10.202.108.149 with HTTP; Fri, 8 May 2015 08:49:48 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <554CCF56.3000604@gmail.com> +References: <554A91BE.6060105@bluematt.me> + <CANEZrP3wGWHdz+ut6pvke5TJJsc1rTFt8sn2KziX35oL5LAsyg@mail.gmail.com> + <CABm2gDpDvk2VsQ+mJ-BoeBKmvu9jBXNujZEFKuCStRNjFL6VOA@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP2zAGCCBhNa4=9yw+A_Dn5o4SQXoPTE_qcJzZ1dFuF2tw@mail.gmail.com> + <CABm2gDqd6iHRUDKZWWTudcC1QkYa+rCuHjz7pMC2K1Db8wpgfA@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP1CU0kB0vXeXUX1L8byaT-Zf2xg+3N+GeNthi_i6bn1qw@mail.gmail.com> + <CABsx9T2Nxvr4fqREMw3_LXftzsxrUAR1+9sVMa8_EpTnH1nN1Q@mail.gmail.com> + <554BA032.4040405@bluematt.me> + <CANEZrP3yM9wsSPNgpOsXDk-DjUy5PW2XuRTvK2AyCNbVJ5hZHw@mail.gmail.com> + <CADJgMzti7ROH90APiwg4NOAT5+Av=4i295b8VN0sbSLr4+WWRw@mail.gmail.com> + <CANEZrP39jWHLF02z-81Z4+9X1vH5+hMuS=-3ED81=Q1o9U=DKw@mail.gmail.com> + <554BBDA2.7040508@gmail.com> + <CAJHLa0NcxOHkrtW2=-JgfsXQJkCO8Ym7icBwMx_2RsaWcPBnTw@mail.gmail.com> + <554CCF56.3000604@gmail.com> +From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> +Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 11:49:48 -0400 +Message-ID: <CAJHLa0Mc_7OYFpxHjMGTyMNBAXUV+Y67rZMsKuZgp4mGN7fJVg@mail.gmail.com> +To: Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c203a8951850051593fbb0 +X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature + -0.0 AWL AWL: Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address +X-Headers-End: 1YqkXW-0000Ym-Ev +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Block Size Increase +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 15:50:15 -0000 + +--001a11c203a8951850051593fbb0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com> wrote: + +> +> This isn't about "everyone's coffee". This is about an absolute minimum +> amount of participation by people who wish to use the network. If our +> goal is really for bitcoin to really be a global, open transaction network +> that makes money fluid, then 7tps is already a failure. If even 5% of the +> world (350M people) was using the network for 1 tx per month (perhaps to +> open payment channels, or shift money between side chains), we'll be above +> 100 tps. And that doesn't include all the non-individuals (organizations) +> that want to use it. +> +> The goals of "a global transaction network" and "everyone must be able to +> run a full node with their $200 dell laptop" are not compatible. We need +> to accept that a global transaction system cannot be fully/constantly +> audited by everyone and their mother. The important feature of the network +> is that it is open and anyone *can* get the history and verify it. But not +> everyone is required to. Trying to promote a system where the history can +> be forever handled by a low-end PC is already falling out of reach, even +> with our miniscule 7 tps. Clinging to that goal needlessly limits the +> capability for the network to scale to be a useful global payments system +> +> +To repeat, the very first point in my email reply was: "Agree that 7 tps is +too low" Never was it said that bit + +Therefore a reply arguing against the low end is nonsense, and the relevant +question remains on the table. + +How high do you want to go - and can Layer 1 bitcoin really scale to get +there? + +It is highly disappointing to see people endorse "moar bitcoin volume!" +with zero thinking behind that besides "adoption!" Need to actually +project what bitcoin looks like at the desired levels, what network +resources are required to get to those levels -- including traffic to serve +those SPV clients via P2P -- and then work backwards from that to see who +can support it, and then work backwards to discern a maximum tps. + +-- +Jeff Garzik +Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist +BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ + +--001a11c203a8951850051593fbb0 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F= +ri, May 8, 2015 at 10:59 AM, Alan Reiner <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m= +ailto:etotheipi@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">etotheipi@gmail.com</a>></s= +pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p= +x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> + =20 + =20 + =20 + <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"> + <br> + This isn't about "everyone's coffee".=C2=A0 This is a= +bout an absolute + minimum amount of participation by people who wish to use the + network.=C2=A0=C2=A0 If our goal is really for bitcoin to really be a g= +lobal, + open transaction network that makes money fluid, then 7tps is + already a failure.=C2=A0 If even 5% of the world (350M people) was usin= +g + the network for 1 tx per month (perhaps to open payment channels, or + shift money between side chains), we'll be above 100 tps.=C2=A0 And= + that + doesn't include all the non-individuals (organizations) that want t= +o + use it.<br> + <br> + The goals of "a global transaction network" and "everyon= +e must be + able to run a full node with their $200 dell laptop" are not + compatible.=C2=A0 We need to accept that a global transaction system + cannot be fully/constantly audited by everyone and their mother.=C2=A0 + The important feature of the network is that it is open and anyone + *can* get the history and verify it.=C2=A0 But not everyone is required + to.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Trying to promote a system where the history can be for= +ever + handled by a low-end PC is already falling out of reach, even with + our miniscule 7 tps.=C2=A0 Clinging to that goal needlessly limits the + capability for the network to scale to be a useful global payments + system <br> + <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>To repeat, the very first po= +int in my email reply was: "Agree that 7 tps is too low"=C2=A0 Ne= +ver was it said that bit<br><br></div><div>Therefore a reply arguing agains= +t the low end is nonsense, and the relevant question remains on the table.<= +br><br></div><div>How high do you want to go - and can Layer 1 bitcoin real= +ly scale to get there?<br><br></div></div>It is highly disappointing to see= + people endorse "moar bitcoin volume!" with zero thinking behind = +that besides "adoption!"=C2=A0 Need to actually project what bitc= +oin looks like at the desired levels, what network resources are required t= +o get to those levels -- including traffic to serve those SPV clients via P= +2P -- and then work backwards from that to see who can support it, and then= + work backwards to discern a maximum tps.<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div = +class=3D"gmail_signature">Jeff Garzik<br>Bitcoin core developer and open so= +urce evangelist<br>BitPay, Inc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://bitp= +ay.com/" target=3D"_blank">https://bitpay.com/</a></div> +</div></div> + +--001a11c203a8951850051593fbb0-- + + |