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| author | Kevin Greene <kgreenek@gmail.com> | 2015-05-25 22:12:04 -0700 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2015-05-26 05:12:32 +0000 |
| commit | 3d00882bc1fee4298d972830dd23438dc26c74ba (patch) | |
| tree | 34619e111395eae16b3992028c43705fc7d89fe9 | |
| parent | 7e56aceeecc036591d0843447e0de88227ebba6d (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-3d00882bc1fee4298d972830dd23438dc26c74ba.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-3d00882bc1fee4298d972830dd23438dc26c74ba.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Zero-Conf for Full Node Discovery
| -rw-r--r-- | 88/d629e006d01eb3d8bb1075075d05615eb243ca | 278 |
1 files changed, 278 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/88/d629e006d01eb3d8bb1075075d05615eb243ca b/88/d629e006d01eb3d8bb1075075d05615eb243ca new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1bc0ca4f1 --- /dev/null +++ b/88/d629e006d01eb3d8bb1075075d05615eb243ca @@ -0,0 +1,278 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <kgreenek@gmail.com>) id 1Yx7AG-0001Bq-JR + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 26 May 2015 05:12:32 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.212.180 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.212.180; envelope-from=kgreenek@gmail.com; + helo=mail-wi0-f180.google.com; +Received: from mail-wi0-f180.google.com ([209.85.212.180]) + by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1Yx7AF-0004f4-4k + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 26 May 2015 05:12:32 +0000 +Received: by wicmx19 with SMTP id mx19so64125051wic.0 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Mon, 25 May 2015 22:12:25 -0700 (PDT) +X-Received: by 10.194.179.2 with SMTP id dc2mr46220944wjc.120.1432617145113; + Mon, 25 May 2015 22:12:25 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Received: by 10.27.20.1 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2015 22:12:04 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <2508972.mm4E72Fj6S@crushinator> +References: <CANe1mWwi+fxFU43_2mq-yd_qRsmCwMu_c5wWOpvFS4Un_FoT+Q@mail.gmail.com> + <2916218.tfdjj1Sv9m@crushinator> + <CAEY8wq40vyG8CFZ7U1Z3hhF_ziSqEQ3GDpXLwm1MAVtK03aT-A@mail.gmail.com> + <2508972.mm4E72Fj6S@crushinator> +From: Kevin Greene <kgreenek@gmail.com> +Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 22:12:04 -0700 +Message-ID: <CAEY8wq4+X3JbgY8Oedz=uuDd7Y8LjqcPYt3vw_LRawEG4aCNHg@mail.gmail.com> +To: Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d1954089fe40516f52c07 +X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (kgreenek[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from + author's domain + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1Yx7AF-0004f4-4k +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Zero-Conf for Full Node Discovery +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 05:12:32 -0000 + +--089e013d1954089fe40516f52c07 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 + +This is true, but the device doesn't know if the LAN it's on is a safe +network or a hotel wifi, for example. So there would be a tricky UX there. +You'd have to ask the user during set up if this is a trusted LAN or not; +or something like that. That may not be an issue though depending on the +nature of the product. For example, Chromecast doesn't need any security +protections against trolls on the same LAN. I guess it just depends on what +you're planning to build. + +On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> +wrote: + +> Who would be performing a Sybil attack against themselves? We're talking +> about a LAN here. All the nodes would be under the control of the same +> entity. In that case, you actually want them all connecting solely to a +> central hub node on the LAN, and the hub node should connect to "diverse +> and unpredictable" other nodes on the Bitcoin network. +> +> +> On Monday, 25 May 2015, at 9:46 pm, Kevin Greene wrote: +> > This is something you actually don't want. In order to make it as +> difficult +> > as possible for an attacker to perform a sybil attack, you want to +> choose a +> > set of peers that is as diverse, and unpredictable as possible. +> > +> > +> > On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Matt Whitlock <bip@mattwhitlock.name> +> > wrote: +> > +> > > This is very simple to do. Just ping the "all nodes" address (ff02::1) +> and +> > > try connecting to TCP port 8333 of each node that responds. Shouldn't +> take +> > > but more than a few milliseconds on any but the most densely populated +> LANs. +> > > +> > > +> > > On Monday, 25 May 2015, at 11:06 pm, Jim Phillips wrote: +> > > > Is there any work being done on using some kind of zero-conf service +> > > > discovery protocol so that lightweight clients can find a full node +> on +> > > the +> > > > same LAN to peer with rather than having to tie up WAN bandwidth? +> > > > +> > > > I envision a future where lightweight devices within a home use SPV +> over +> > > > WiFi to connect with a home server which in turn relays the +> transactions +> > > > they create out to the larger and faster relays on the Internet. +> > > > +> > > > In a situation where there are hundreds or thousands of small SPV +> devices +> > > > in a single home (if 21, Inc. is successful) monitoring the +> blockchain, +> > > > this could result in lower traffic across the slow WAN connection. +> And +> > > > yes, I realize it could potentially take a LOT of these devices +> before +> > > the +> > > > total bandwidth is greater than downloading a full copy of the +> > > blockchain, +> > > > but there's other reasons to host your own full node -- trust being +> one. +> > > > +> > > > -- +> > > > *James G. Phillips IV* +> > > > <https://plus.google.com/u/0/113107039501292625391/posts> +> > > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe> +> > > > +> > > > *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the company of +> > > immortals." +> > > > -- David Ogilvy* +> > > > +> > > > *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons. Please think +> > > twice +> > > > before printing.* +> > > +> > > +> > > +> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ +> > > One dashboard for servers and applications across +> Physical-Virtual-Cloud +> > > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications +> > > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable +> Insights +> > > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight. +> > > http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y +> > > _______________________________________________ +> > > Bitcoin-development mailing list +> > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development +> > > +> + +--089e013d1954089fe40516f52c07 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:#336666">This = +is true, but the device doesn't know if the LAN it's on is a safe n= +etwork or a hotel wifi, for example. So there would be a tricky UX there. Y= +ou'd have to ask the user during set up if this is a trusted LAN or not= +; or something like that. That may not be an issue though depending on the = +nature of the product. For example, Chromecast doesn't need any securit= +y protections against trolls on the same LAN. I guess it just depends on wh= +at you're planning to build.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c= +lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Matt Whitlock <span d= +ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bip@mattwhitlock.name" target=3D"_blank">b= +ip@mattwhitlock.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= +ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex= +">Who would be performing a Sybil attack against themselves? We're talk= +ing about a LAN here. All the nodes would be under the control of the same = +entity. In that case, you actually want them all connecting solely to a cen= +tral hub node on the LAN, and the hub node should connect to "diverse = +and unpredictable" other nodes on the Bitcoin network.<br> +<div><div><br> +<br> +On Monday, 25 May 2015, at 9:46 pm, Kevin Greene wrote:<br> +> This is something you actually don't want. In order to make it as = +difficult<br> +> as possible for an attacker to perform a sybil attack, you want to cho= +ose a<br> +> set of peers that is as diverse, and unpredictable as possible.<br> +><br> +><br> +> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 9:37 PM, Matt Whitlock <<a href=3D"mailto:b= +ip@mattwhitlock.name" target=3D"_blank">bip@mattwhitlock.name</a>><br> +> wrote:<br> +><br> +> > This is very simple to do. Just ping the "all nodes" ad= +dress (ff02::1) and<br> +> > try connecting to TCP port 8333 of each node that responds. Shoul= +dn't take<br> +> > but more than a few milliseconds on any but the most densely popu= +lated LANs.<br> +> ><br> +> ><br> +> > On Monday, 25 May 2015, at 11:06 pm, Jim Phillips wrote:<br> +> > > Is there any work being done on using some kind of zero-conf= + service<br> +> > > discovery protocol so that lightweight clients can find a fu= +ll node on<br> +> > the<br> +> > > same LAN to peer with rather than having to tie up WAN bandw= +idth?<br> +> > ><br> +> > > I envision a future where lightweight devices within a home = +use SPV over<br> +> > > WiFi to connect with a home server which in turn relays the = +transactions<br> +> > > they create out to the larger and faster relays on the Inter= +net.<br> +> > ><br> +> > > In a situation where there are hundreds or thousands of smal= +l SPV devices<br> +> > > in a single home (if 21, Inc. is successful) monitoring the = +blockchain,<br> +> > > this could result in lower traffic across the slow WAN conne= +ction.=C2=A0 And<br> +> > > yes, I realize it could potentially take a LOT of these devi= +ces before<br> +> > the<br> +> > > total bandwidth is greater than downloading a full copy of t= +he<br> +> > blockchain,<br> +> > > but there's other reasons to host your own full node -- = +trust being one.<br> +> > ><br> +> > > --<br> +> > > *James G. Phillips IV*<br> +> > > <<a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/0/11310703950129262= +5391/posts" target=3D"_blank">https://plus.google.com/u/0/11310703950129262= +5391/posts</a>><br> +> > > <<a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe" target= +=3D"_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/ergophobe</a>><br> +> > ><br> +> > > *"Don't bunt. Aim out of the ball park. Aim for the= + company of<br> +> > immortals."<br> +> > > -- David Ogilvy*<br> +> > ><br> +> > >=C2=A0 *This message was created with 100% recycled electrons= +. Please think<br> +> > twice<br> +> > > before printing.*<br> +> ><br> +> ><br> +> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= +-------------<br> +> > One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtua= +l-Cloud<br> +> > Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications<br= +> +> > Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable I= +nsights<br> +> > Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.<= +br> +> > <a href=3D"http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;= +y" target=3D"_blank">http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;= +y</a><br> +> > _______________________________________________<br> +> > Bitcoin-development mailing list<br> +> > <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" targ= +et=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> +> > <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-d= +evelopment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/= +bitcoin-development</a><br> +> ><br> +</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div> + +--089e013d1954089fe40516f52c07-- + + |