diff options
| author | Weiji Guo <weiji.g@gmail.com> | 2018-11-09 16:20:21 +0800 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2018-11-09 08:20:38 +0000 |
| commit | 2d0c7602a2622712c9a2717ec2d1a921180a2eb6 (patch) | |
| tree | 67540fb1772948630a3c58195d520c488abe8a92 | |
| parent | 8ab9e96f701aa29d4959a9b9c97f3861b140e8b2 (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-2d0c7602a2622712c9a2717ec2d1a921180a2eb6.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-2d0c7602a2622712c9a2717ec2d1a921180a2eb6.zip | |
Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin-dev Digest, Vol 42, Issue 4
| -rw-r--r-- | 71/93700aebba5b37c4833b71c3e8de1b246cf631 | 171 |
1 files changed, 171 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/71/93700aebba5b37c4833b71c3e8de1b246cf631 b/71/93700aebba5b37c4833b71c3e8de1b246cf631 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..337c94374 --- /dev/null +++ b/71/93700aebba5b37c4833b71c3e8de1b246cf631 @@ -0,0 +1,171 @@ +Return-Path: <weiji.g@gmail.com> +Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org + [172.17.192.35]) + by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EAA1B16 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 9 Nov 2018 08:20:38 +0000 (UTC) +X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 +Received: from mail-ed1-f41.google.com (mail-ed1-f41.google.com + [209.85.208.41]) + by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BE2E7ED + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 9 Nov 2018 08:20:37 +0000 (UTC) +Received: by mail-ed1-f41.google.com with SMTP id d3so462128edx.7 + for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; + Fri, 09 Nov 2018 00:20:37 -0800 (PST) +DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; + h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; + bh=F8TVGiXbrzI2QYjHa9R53eCK2/kZgHFBYOVMLGrPz/g=; + b=cNvoYnh4z4H1Z9tPIhtzOFUrJ8fUxKNrSYq3BAUk7iBqH+UNdG4uc5Q4q2HrsZMOhF + Zrc2bCgWRbhtPqbTxuSkhtMgzszmPiR9g2g6SG3WY9m+7fjCqj4EZHtQA8Kz0P5Wnkts + UUoZL/B5/Oqd5C9iKlmxoPm2PCY9NEEU3RtBHrtYeQh3CiP02CbvimV+IeK7WeBZKTgw + BxVKstMMvbbLs09DthEgtv941mJOpjWZDi/Pa9UUjlqZmT7RXxLKU7oWD2De1mKG6Kpy + A2JDoM6nnaXIbSyNDbpR2NHQQL0sgnrkQgb6X6+MYmqt5yLQYwILW6+a/rEQxiE19oBR + T8cQ== +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20161025; + h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date + :message-id:subject:to; + bh=F8TVGiXbrzI2QYjHa9R53eCK2/kZgHFBYOVMLGrPz/g=; + b=RAZOVlwra8Fkdl0Sp7pKtOKwOLOND/yc/N7EgDDiuClgFGIyQQvoayYXq/OYU5cgDY + WWSBE84ib6pkQb5vE/juWdkhYLYfgH09D1f+v2dW1VFV3WZmKCtjGQ8OU7cxzsY0CJpf + gRscEdERmcYpavUJyPiyGxPR9WI0Fi+K826OXnIkxS2fkAASU0rMXzCzJVU45yT6vGCI + FP8WR0fupZGivGj3OwYCURUeJMKhE9R3Sx6Tcb18iL6g33GUfFk0vSxL9Pu1bAWkxZcJ + SFoNpHJjF20HuOldJ0qOnisNu21DaxSm0fJmg8zq/aG+lZPhg3qqi2tmBWSg8WDNBwEE + /i7w== +X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKC2H6Vm769PTfvQBQO6kkNJmvPoRzMz3Oq5Bgt8kBp46eeatAd + Y9mBsSHz8ED6cWBmVcmzOCfKwROAXwE17yJPN2ga+zD6 +X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5e3VIBBelH9aPtokRhnu9/E7qPRGr40d2pYOPBu2X0sVItFLDfB37WKngYBHYiPZh19mKTsXxgPCyU5Fqu7uoU= +X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:74d7:: with SMTP id + z23-v6mr1223256ejl.234.1541751635704; + Fri, 09 Nov 2018 00:20:35 -0800 (PST) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +References: <mailman.800.1541743907.19477.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +In-Reply-To: <mailman.800.1541743907.19477.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +From: Weiji Guo <weiji.g@gmail.com> +Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 16:20:21 +0800 +Message-ID: <CA+ydi=+=v5X8Q3PTuULQO6+JUYQ3PXy8-aJkxrBwfxTS+ZEpvQ@mail.gmail.com> +To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org, somber.night@protonmail.com, + junderwood@bitcoinbank.co.jp +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000940133057a370636" +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, + DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, + RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 +X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on + smtp1.linux-foundation.org +X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 17:56:30 +0000 +Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] bitcoin-dev Digest, Vol 42, Issue 4 +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 +Precedence: list +List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, + <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2018 08:20:38 -0000 + +--000000000000940133057a370636 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" + +> Do you specifically want to support changing the language of seed +words, while keeping the bip32 root seed they generate unchanged? +What is the usecase for this? + +Yes and no. Yes that the inter-operability will be much better if the +same seed could be recorded as in English and in other languages +as well. There could be a standalone 3rd party tool to convert +mnemonic sentences from one language to another so wallets +do not have to support all languages. This, in reality, does not make +any wallet more complicated or increase any dev costs. + +No that I don't think anyone would switch language for fun. + +And I think the symmetric function in SLIP-0039 is a good +idea to help with migration the existing wallets. So this will look like: + +Chinese +English +Japanese <=> entropy <=> sym. KDF <==> BIP32 seed +...... +Decimal numbers + +>If changing the language of seeds is not a requirement, then look +into Electrum seeds. They are language/wordlist agnostic. + +So, changing the language is not a requirement. However, the current BIP-39 +makes the seed dependent on the language. And I'd like to see it changed. +The change will not further complicates the wallets as we can rely on 3rd +conversion tools to handle different languages. + +One additional benefit multiple language support could bring up is, we can +write down the mnemonic sentence in two or more different languages +simultaneously, as a way to do checksum each other. + +Regarding Jon's comments: +>lack of localized words for recovery phrase causes more money loss than +supporting it. + +This also worries me. + +Think of the situation that one day, crypto currencies are all over the +world. +Everyone has some coins. Among them many just cannot handle English. +We must provide a way for them to master their crypto assets. Therefore, +as Jon had stressed, it is very important to support multiple languages. +I really don't like it if only English could be used. + +And then think of those who do not have a native language wordlist. Allowing +representing the seed in decimal numbers will be helpful. + +Thanks, +Weiji + +--000000000000940133057a370636 +Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr">> Do you specifically want to support changing the lang= +uage of seed<br>words, while keeping the bip32 root seed they generate unch= +anged?<br>What is the usecase for this?<div><br></div><div>Yes and no. Yes = +that the inter-operability will be much better if the=C2=A0</div><div>same = +seed could be recorded as in English and in other languages</div><div>as we= +ll. There could be a standalone 3rd party tool to convert=C2=A0</div><div>m= +nemonic sentences from one language to another so wallets</div><div>do not = +have to support all languages. This, in reality, does not make=C2=A0</div><= +div>any wallet more complicated or increase any dev costs.=C2=A0</div><div>= +<br></div><div>No that I don't think anyone would switch language for f= +un.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>And I think the symmetric function in SL= +IP-0039 is a good</div><div>idea to help with migration the existing wallet= +s. So this will look like:</div><div><br></div><div>Chinese</div><div>Engli= +sh</div><div>Japanese=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= +=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <=3D> entropy <=3D> sym. KDF <=3D= +=3D> BIP32 seed</div><div>......</div><div>Decimal numbers</div><div><br= +></div><div>>If changing the language of seeds is not a requirement, the= +n look</div>into Electrum seeds. They are language/wordlist agnostic.<div><= +br></div><div>So, changing the language is not a requirement. However, the = +current BIP-39</div><div>makes the seed dependent on the language. And I= +9;d like to see it changed.=C2=A0</div><div>The change will not further com= +plicates the wallets as we can rely on 3rd=C2=A0</div><div>conversion tools= + to handle different languages.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>One addition= +al benefit multiple language support could bring up is, we can=C2=A0</div><= +div>write down the mnemonic sentence in two or more different languages</di= +v><div>simultaneously, as a way to do checksum each other.</div><div><div><= +br></div><div>Regarding Jon's comments:</div><div>>lack of localized= + words for recovery phrase causes more money loss than=C2=A0</div><div>supp= +orting it.</div><div><br></div><div>This also worries me.</div><div><br></d= +iv><div>Think of the situation that one day, crypto currencies are all over= + the world.</div><div>Everyone has some coins. Among them many just cannot = +handle English.</div><div>We must provide a way for them to master their cr= +ypto assets. Therefore,=C2=A0</div><div>as Jon had stressed, it is very imp= +ortant to support multiple languages.=C2=A0</div><div>I really don't li= +ke it if only English could be used.</div><div><br></div><div>And then thin= +k of those who do not have a native language wordlist. Allowing</div><div>r= +epresenting the seed in decimal numbers will be helpful.=C2=A0</div><div><b= +r></div></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Weiji</div></div> + +--000000000000940133057a370636-- + |