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| author | Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation.org> | 2014-03-25 08:45:00 -0400 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | bitcoindev <bitcoindev@gnusha.org> | 2014-03-25 12:45:07 +0000 |
| commit | 18fb3c5daee1624aee25660da7ad552f186e9a34 (patch) | |
| tree | cbcefc2908b68673b462acc5f694f7c8bd9783ce | |
| parent | 749ed0d079b18b7dd49d7994af9ff930a593227e (diff) | |
| download | pi-bitcoindev-18fb3c5daee1624aee25660da7ad552f186e9a34.tar.gz pi-bitcoindev-18fb3c5daee1624aee25660da7ad552f186e9a34.zip | |
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary
| -rw-r--r-- | 2c/081e0c89c593424d7e1dfb25de9ab2049c0d3a | 145 |
1 files changed, 145 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/2c/081e0c89c593424d7e1dfb25de9ab2049c0d3a b/2c/081e0c89c593424d7e1dfb25de9ab2049c0d3a new file mode 100644 index 000000000..45981e3ee --- /dev/null +++ b/2c/081e0c89c593424d7e1dfb25de9ab2049c0d3a @@ -0,0 +1,145 @@ +Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] + helo=mx.sourceforge.net) + by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) + (envelope-from <gavinandresen@gmail.com>) id 1WSQj5-0005OK-HX + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:45:07 +0000 +Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com + designates 209.85.160.171 as permitted sender) + client-ip=209.85.160.171; envelope-from=gavinandresen@gmail.com; + helo=mail-yk0-f171.google.com; +Received: from mail-yk0-f171.google.com ([209.85.160.171]) + by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) + (Exim 4.76) id 1WSQj4-0002Dm-IL + for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; + Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:45:07 +0000 +Received: by mail-yk0-f171.google.com with SMTP id q9so985617ykb.2 + for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>; + Tue, 25 Mar 2014 05:45:01 -0700 (PDT) +MIME-Version: 1.0 +X-Received: by 10.236.50.194 with SMTP id z42mr624041yhb.145.1395751500976; + Tue, 25 Mar 2014 05:45:00 -0700 (PDT) +Sender: gavinandresen@gmail.com +Received: by 10.170.133.195 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Mar 2014 05:45:00 -0700 (PDT) +In-Reply-To: <20140325122851.GA9818@savin> +References: <20140322084702.GA13436@savin> <20140322150836.GG3180@nl.grid.coop> + <20140322190825.GB6047@savin> <532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io> + <20140325122851.GA9818@savin> +Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 08:45:00 -0400 +X-Google-Sender-Auth: yuB10CJcGTBhgLo6IeTMiHer2UM +Message-ID: <CABsx9T149f9of9+sYMFazAxtRi=ZJrpA1B41buERD3+j7NGKmg@mail.gmail.com> +From: Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation.org> +To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> +Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1d96869180104f56db8c2 +X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) +X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. + See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. + -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for + sender-domain + 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider + (gavinandresen[at]gmail.com) + -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record + 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message + 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, + not necessarily valid + -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature +X-Headers-End: 1WSQj4-0002Dm-IL +Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary +X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 +Precedence: list +List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> +List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> +List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> +List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> +List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, + <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> +X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 12:45:07 -0000 + +--001a11c1d96869180104f56db8c2 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 + +On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote: + +> Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the +> most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update +> the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that +> updating that state requires bandwidth equal to all the transaction +> volume to keep up with the changes to what set. Long story short, we get +> O(n^2) scaling, which is just plain infeasible. +> + +We have a fundamental disagreement here. + +If you go back and read Satoshi's original thoughts on scaling, it is clear +that he imagined tens of thousands of mining nodes and hundreds of millions +of lightweight SPV users. + +Scaling is a problem if every person is a fully validating node; then, +indeed, you get an O(n^2) problem. Which can be solved by extending some +tentative trust to your peers, but lets put all those possible solutions +aside. + +Given tens of thousands of fully validating nodes, you get O(m*n), where m +is the number of fully validating peers and is a large constant (10s of +thousands). + +We don't know how large m can or will be; we have only just started to +scale up. + +"Bitcoin doesn't scale" is pure FUD. It might not scale in exactly the way +you want, but it WILL scale. + +-- +-- +Gavin Andresen +Chief Scientist, Bitcoin Foundation +https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/ + +--001a11c1d96869180104f56db8c2 +Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM= +, Peter Todd <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:pete@petertodd.org" ta= +rget=3D"_blank">pete@petertodd.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><div clas= +s=3D"gmail_extra"> +<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= +n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div id=3D":oh" c= +lass=3D"a3s" style=3D"overflow:hidden">Bitcoin doesn't scale. There'= +;s a lot of issues at hand here, but the<br> + +most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update<br> +the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that<br> +updating that state requires bandwidth equal to all the transaction<br> +volume to keep up with the changes to what set. Long story short, we get<br= +> +O(n^2) scaling, which is just plain infeasible.<br></div></blockquote></div= +><br>We have a fundamental disagreement here.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extr= +a"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">If you go back and read Satoshi'= +;s original thoughts on scaling, it is clear that he imagined tens of thous= +ands of mining nodes and hundreds of millions of lightweight SPV users.</di= +v> +<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Scaling is = +a problem if every person is a fully validating node; then, indeed, you get= + an O(n^2) problem. =A0Which can be solved by extending some tentative trus= +t to your peers, but lets put all those possible solutions aside.</div> +<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Given tens = +of thousands of fully validating nodes, you get O(m*n), where m is the numb= +er of fully validating peers and is a large constant (10s of thousands).</d= +iv> +<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">We don'= +t know how large m can or will be; we have only just started to scale up.<b= +r><br>"Bitcoin doesn't scale" is pure FUD. It might not scale= + in exactly the way you want, but it WILL scale.<br clear=3D"all"> +<div><br></div>-- <br>--<div>Gavin Andresen</div><div>Chief Scientist, Bitc= +oin Foundation</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/" tar= +get=3D"_blank">https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/</a></div><div><br></div> +</div></div> + +--001a11c1d96869180104f56db8c2-- + + |