path: root/transcripts/eugene-podkletnov-gravity-manipulation-2004.mdwn

location: tampereen teknillinen yliopisto (tampere technical university, finland)

date: early 2004

interviewer: richard heene

video url: https://youtu.be/AgyAFElQZcU

digitized by: alienscientist

reupload reason: manually corrected youtube auto-captions

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podkletnov:

my name is eugene podkletnov, i'm a doctor of
technology of finland, i'm also a doctor of
technical science of russia, and i used to be
a professor of chemistry at one of the universities
of moscow. during the last 12 years i was making
my research work in the rather unusual field which
is called experimental gravity research, and i got
some unusual results which might be extremely interesting
for practical application and for the understanding of
the mechanism of gravity, which still can be considered
as a white spot in modern physics.

heene: 

personally speaking for me in all
honestly you're like my hero because
since I was 13 years old I've been
fascinated with gravity. I told my father
that one day I was going to do something
with I didn't know what so now here you
are. so the papers the research that I've
read on the internet about you, it says that
1992 is when you first started this
experiment or prior to that so can you
can you can you elaborate how you
started this?

podkletnov:

I was working at Tampere
University of Technology and in fact I
was working with high-temperature
superconductors which are very
interesting materials because they can
capture the magnetic field of various
configurations and they have pretty
unusual properties. at that time it was
in the center of the attention of all
the scientists of the world and I was
working with rather big samples with a
diameter of maybe six to eight inches
which was unusual even at that time, and
I noticed some anomalous behavior of
those superconductors and I noticed that
several objects or any objects which
were placed over the superconducting
disc and the interaction with the
magnetic fields of high-frequency all
those objects lost some part of their
weight. we checked and rechecked our
experiments before we were brave enough
to publish our first article, and it
appeared in 1992 in the magazine
physica C and it was met with great
interest by the scientific community.
at that time we used the term gravity
shielding because we thought it might be
connected really to gravity shielding
but later we decided not to use that
term because it was not
right. now we use the term gravity
modification, or to be exact
it's the modification of local gravity
field. and though to be honest we do not
know exactly the mechanism of gravity,
we're only beginning to understand it.
still we are already able to use it in
different aspects and for different
purposes for scientific industrial and
others, and we think that this direction
has a big future.

heene: 

okay yeah I pulled something off the
internet here and it says that um
originally now I don't know this is true
or not this is the first time i've ever read this
particular thing, since i've been reading about you,
it says that ah, it was it was kind of an
accident. you were spinning a disc? was there smoke?
is that true? was it an accident? or... 

podkletnov:

it was kind of an accident. 

cameraman:

you guys hold on there on a second you've got 
lots of this dust going in front of the lens.

podkletnov:

okay you can say it was practically by
accident because we were making our
research and we were making the
measurements of the weight and we were
using a cryostat  and we were working
late in the evening so one of my
colleagues came to the laboratory and he
was smoking his pipe and he blew the
smoke over the cryostat
and then a strange thing happened
because that smoke approached the
cryostat, hit some
invisible barrier, and then went straight
upward. it was a bit unusual but that
gave us a very good idea and later we
used a barometer in order to check up
the air pressure over the cryostat and
it happened so that the air pressure in
the projection area of the disc was
lower than in the surrounding atmosphere
and the difference was up to several
millimeters of water or even mercury. so
this difference could be felt not on the
inside our laboratory but on the second
floor above ours and we were able to
show that we really deal with a well
reproducible and very effective phenomenon.

heene:

great, i'm glad i asked you that.
lets see. okay so i think you should talk about the disk 

podkletnov: 

yeah sure. 
(holds up 20cm diameter 1cm thick dark grey toroid)

heene:

it looks like a weight, that you lift 

podkletnov:

so the disk is made of
yttrium barium copper ceramics and it has
two layers that is very important from
the scientific point of view. so when we
put the disk over the magnets and we
cool it down to the temperature of
liquid nitrogen or liquid helium because
of the Meissner effect disk is
levitating over the magnets and it can
be rotated. and again with a magnetic
field it can be rotated with big speed
we use the rotation up to five thousand
rotations per minute but later we made a
special installation which allowed us to
use much higher speeds and every object
that is put over the disk loses some
part of its weight. in the stationary
mode the loss is not big, it's about
point one percent, but when we rotate the
disk and use resonance frequencies of
the electromagnetic field we can
increase the weight loss up to two
percent and if we increase also the
rotation speed we can reach the maximum
values of five percent and at some peak
values up to nine percent. the only thing
that keeps us from better result is the
rotation speed because the disk is a
ceramic one, and even at twenty thousand
rotations per minute we have very big
forces which tend to destroy it. so we
should keep it always in mind, but as I
used magnetic suspension system because
of the Meissner effect
it's possible to rotate it up to 
rather higher speeds. the maximum that
we used was about 30,000 and then we had
to make some special protection made of
plastic materials so that we could
strengthen the structure of the disc. in
that case we get really good values and
also we have some secrets they are
connected with the resonance frequencies
of the magnetic fields and special
configuration of the solenoids.
but in general it's rather simple
experiment and it can be reproduced in a
normal laboratory at any university.



heene:

um now the superconducting material if
it's a secret that's fine but if you're
allowed to elaborate on basic of the material

podkletnov: 

no it is
not secret we have two layers one layer
is normal superconductor or yttrium
barium copper with the formula one two
three it's well-known in the world and
the second layer is practically the same
material but it is not superconducting
it is normal conductor. so by special
heat treatment we can arrange both
layers in such a way that one layer is
superconducting and another is normal
conducting layer when we rotate the
whole disk in the magnetic field
normal conducting layer produces a lot
of electrons and they move to the
superconducting area and they become not
electrons but Cooper pairs and they form
what we call in physics bose-Einstein
condensate which has unusual
properties. and one of the main
properties is that it is it has the
property of super fluidity super
conductivity definitely and it can also
interact with subatomic particles that
exist around all the objects and
practically form the whole universe. and
by using this interaction of our
superconducting material with subatomic
particles we get very unusual reaction
and we can to some extent change or
modify local gravity field. if we go to a
bit deeper physics we can say that we
have the ability to polarize space
around this rotating disc and using this
polarized space or polarized physical
vacuum we can definitely manipulate
gravity. I can't say that I'm an expert
on gravity,
I never was and I'm afraid I never will
be, but I want to understand gravity and
to make experimental research in this
area because there are a lot of
theoretical works and I'm thankful to
those theoreticians who also studied our
experiments and helped us a lot,
but the experimental part still remains
from my point of view the key point to
overcoming gravity and using it for our
future for our purposes for all our one
needs.


heene:

could you show me with your hands?
I'll probably have a diagram or three
dimensional animation, but I think from
what I was reading that it looks like
Donuts is that correct?

podkletnov:

yes if we speak
about the magnetic field yes it goes
like Donuts but if we speak about the
production of gravitons if they ever
exist because these are still
hypothetical particles we have the
emission of gravitons which follows the
projection of this disc and it goes to
space in one direction and we can change
the direction of the flow of gravitons.
or if we are not sure that these
particles are gravitons we can speak
about gravity waves which propagate in
space and again influence all the
objects that are in the projection area
of the disk.

heene: 

now yes
is-is-is the weight loss in the center
or is it run 

podkletnov:

no no we use this
configuration because we also have a
current which circulates around the disk
and it increases the effect and the
increase of the effect is because of the
fact that we should create the maximum
density of electrons of Cooper pairs
inside the superconducting materials
that is the key to success. that's why we
are rotating it with great speed, that's
why we use high frequency, and the result
of this density is when a certain
critical density of electrons is reached.
we have that interaction of both the
Einstein condensate with the subatomic
particles. if we speak about subatomic
particles what I mean
well this is a bit well it's not an
unusual question in physics usually we
deal with vacuum and vacuum normal
vacuum is considered to be empty
entirely empty. still all the
transmissions of electromagnetic waves
which go to space to space shuttles to
the moon they propagate in space and
they propagate like waves and wave is
only a distortion of the media and if
vacuum is entire entire emptiness there
is nothing to disturb nothing to distort
and then the waves cannot propagate
inside. also if we refer to iron Stein's
theory he says that gravity is the
bending of space-time continuum, it's
right, maybe, but if we want to bend
something and it is entirely empty and
it is impossible so we have to admit
that there are particles which
constitute physical vacuum
these particles several magnitudes of
order smaller than the electron but they
constitute that physical vacuum which
has a lot of energy inside and can to
some extent interact with normal solid
bodies. and the theory of zero point
fluctuations of vacuum was created by
american scientist Harold Puthoff, 
Werner Haisch and doctor Rueda. and this theory
is a very interesting one, there are a
lot of debates about it, but it's the
only theory that is able to explain the
mechanism of gravity the mechanism of
energy and practically how the whole
universe was created.
it's a new approach the idea of ether
is not a new one, it existed
for centuries but now it got a very good
expression in this theory with good
mathematical formulas, and in my work I
try to use this theory. so I'm very
grateful to Harold Puthoff and I'm also
grateful to Jack Sarfatti who is kind
of his opponent in the scientific world,
but with different approaches to the
same subjects we we can have really the
solution of the problem. also most of the
theoretical work which is behind my
experiments, most of this work was done
by dr. Giovanni Modanese who is one of
the leading European theoreticians in
the field of gravity research, and it's
enough to say that he made his ph.d in
Germany and his research was in the
field of general relativity and special
relativity of Einstein. so we don't break
any laws when we are working with
superconductors or experimental gravity
installations were just trying to follow
all the rules, but sometimes we observe
the phenomena which are unusual,
we call them anomalous, and we report
honestly what we find. and we would like
of course to attract the attention of
the scientific world to all these
problems and to organize deeper
research in this field, because it will
definitely improve our understanding of
the universe, of the creation process of
the gravity forces or gravity field, and
it will allow us to use all of these
mechanism for the benefit of humanity.

heene:

okay um now I was reading somewhere where,
and of course you mentioned it, if the disc
spins faster I guess you get more
of a field around it? if you were to say
have a disc made out of that material, and if it
were possible to spin it, would you... I'm trying
to figure out how to phrase this, and if you
were to say spin it, I'll just
say 6,000 rpms, just maybe say three feet,
would it actually be able to levitate
more objects or more weight, or is it
something else at work here?

podkletnov:

well first
of all if you rotate such a big disc at
terrible speeds it will fall apart
because the materials can't stand this
load. but to be absolutely honest now,
after 12 or 15 already years of research
in this field, we came to a conclusion
that it is not necessary to use
superconducting materials in order to
modify the gravity field. we can use
rotating magnetic fields and we can turn
to normal conductors which is much
easier much easier and this method has a
lot of advantages. so we use
superconductors just as model materials
because we can put different magnetic
fields inside and we can freeze magnetic
fields inside the materials, so this is
just the unique properties of the material we used.
so it's possible still to base the
research on superconductors, but we can
go further. and in order to create flying
vehicles or impulse gravity generators,
we can use normal materials.

heene:

okay have you ever tried, i was reading
something about NASA, they've been experimenting,
they evidently released at least
weeks ago, um they haven't released it or,
somehow it got into on the internet
that I read about it, but they have
something that's 20 inches wide by 48 inches
tall, and I guess it's like a tube from
the description of it. if you were to
stack those disks would you get more
power? I guess what I'm trying to
get at is, could you lift heavy objects
like I don't know bricks? you know

podkletnov:

well if we put one disk over another and
they can't be put just like this we use
different cryostats and we can rotate
the disk even in opposite directions. yes
there is some gain in the weight loss, so
it's possible. these experiments that were
made in NASA, according to my knowledge,
they used the principles that I
published in physica C in 1992. then
we modified the experiment and used
bigger discs, so I consulted people from
Marshall Space Flight Center on this
topic and they got some unusual results,
but unfortunately the whole the whole
project, which was called breakthrough
propulsion system, it lost practically
all the funding and the research was
stopped at the final point. they made the
cryostat, they made the disks very close
to the requirements that we
supplied, and we were ready for the tests
but the program was stopped,
unfortunately. and that is quite
understandable because this research is
entirely new, and by the way it doesn't
require much money, and usual approach to
gravity problems, to rockets, to
shuttle programs, all these things take
lots of money and that also means that a
lot of people are involved, they have
working places and the companies gets
millions from this, but finally what we
get as a result is a shuttle which is
not a reliable construction at all, and
it was good for the 20th century but it
is not good for the 21st. we have better
proposals, we have cheaper variants, and
we have more efficient solutions for the
exploration of space. so I was always
hoping to be able to organize the
Institute for the gravity research, based
on the best physicists of the world. it
might be under the guidance of NASA or
European Space Agency or Russian space
agency or British Aerospace, whatever it
is, but it should be international
because the problem is too complicated
to solve it all in the United States or
in France or in Russia.

heene:

if you were to
this smoke that you did your colleague
blew over that... is it possible to see
the actual rings that go around, is there
some way of looking at that?

podkletnov:

no no it's
the smoke simply approach this area and
then it goes up and that's all. and my
poor colleague I usually I can't even
tell his name because unfortunately, and
everybody knows it, it is not allowed to
smoke in the lab, but it was evening time
and he was exhausted and he was going
home and he was just curious what we
were doing so late, that's why he... so I'm
always asked, do you know that it is not
allowed to smoke in the lab? yes, I know
it very well. we never smoke, we usually
don't break any laws, administrative or
physical, we're just very intelligent
people. (laughs)

heene:

I didn't know that. so, I
don't wanna get you in trouble! okay okay so
what would happen, I mean okay here's
something I was wondering, have you ever, I
don't know how you get the disc to a
spin maybe you got electric motor under
it or something, but if you were to put a
pan of water maybe two inches thick,
you know two feet by two feet, would it have
any effect on the water? would the water I
mean couldn't it possibly
bring the water up? is that possible?

podkletnov:

well,
what will happen that all water that is
put over the disc will lose some part of
its weight, so if we put 1 liter of water
it will weigh not one kilo but 2% less
or 1% less, that's all. we can't use this
method for the turbines or for the
production of energy at present, but I'm
sure that based on this principle we can
later construct the installations which
will be able to provide us not with
entirely free energy, but with energy
which is very cheap and very efficient.
if we speak about free energy, again I
don't want to break the second law of
thermodynamics, but the second law of
thermodynamics is valid only for closed
systems, and it is well known to every
physicist, but they always forget that we
deal with physical vacuum. that means the
subatomic particles that are present
everywhere, in the air, inside this body,
inside human tissues. and we can take the
energy from this field of physical
vacuum, and we can use this energy. but
how to organize the interaction with
this physical vacuum? it's another
question. so there are various approaches,
and there are pages on the net which are
called American anti-gravity, it's a
very big work by Tim Ventura, and I have
a small abstract there. and there are
different ways to polarize space and to
have the interaction with physical
vacuum. we can create high magnetic
fields, we can create high electric
fields like Biefield-Brown effect, we can
also have extra low frequencies - and here
it's necessary to mention the works of
Professor fran de aquino from Brazil -
and it's also possible to use a rotating
magnetic fields based on the works of
Professor Searle or from Great Britain,
we can also rotate normal gyroscopes - and
I'm always thankful to Professor Laithwaite
who slightly disturbed the
traditions of the science in Britain but
still proved that we can create special gravity forces
using usual gyroscopes - and we can also
use special grids very thin grids and
topological effects in order to polarize
space, and we can of course use
superconducting materials and the
properties of bose-einstein condensate,
and there are also some other methods. we
know some of them and we know, and maybe
we don't know all of them, but there is a
big field of
unstudied material in front of us. but we
can also use the combination of all
these methods and this will definitely
give the best results. so we're slowly
moving in these directions using the
knowledge of different scientists from
other countries, using theoretical
material that is that exists in this
area, but also using intuition because
we're pioneering this work and this task
is extremely difficult, because modern
science it's like Holy Inquisition. we
can't say we invented or we made
anti-gravity. by the way we never use the
term anti-gravity in our laboratory. we
use gravity forces which can be
attractive and which can be also
repulsive. and by the way if, er...
superconducting material can demonstrate
both repulsive and attractive forces. for
example if we have a superconductor and
we have a magnet, and we put the magnet
over the superconductor and cool the
whole system down, then we take the
magnet off and the superconducting disk
follows it. and we can rotate it just by
hand and it will continue rotating under
the magnet. so we have the magnetic
field which scientists say is frozen
inside the superconductor. well the word 
frozen is not quite acceptable.
this is a very interesting
phenomenon practically same as levitation,
but the mechanism of all these things
and the flux and the properties of the
electrons, these things are not studied
in detail, they are not understood in
detail, and even the mechanism of
superconductivity
high-temperature superconductivity is
not established, and nobel prize is
still waiting for the scientists who
will give us the direct
explanation of the mechanism of
superconductivity. so it just proves that
the subject is too difficult and too
unusual to work alone or with a small
team. we need the efforts of the
international community, that's the key
to success.

heene:

that's great. NASA has
an ion propulsion system, are you aware
that? that particular the system, they've
got deep-space one, deep-space two now,
they're being propelled by that. have you
ever experimented with using gases, maybe
like a xenon gas spinning, xenon gas perhaps?

podkletnov:

if we speak
about propulsion systems I think that
it's better to refer to another step of
our work, which is called impulse gravity
generator. this work attracted not
only the attention of NASA but also the
attention of Boeing, and Boeing phantom
works in particular, they have a special
research in this field. so if we refer to
this field this is a bit different but
based practical on the same mechanism. so
we again have a superconducting disc
which is made of two layers, but the
thermal treatment and chemical
composition is a bit different so we
have different crystal structure, and we
organize a high voltage discharge
through this superconductor, and it's a
very unusual experiment
I think nobody in the world ever
repeated it. so we use the principle of
the van der Graaf generator and we have
the difference of voltages close to two
million, we have
superconducting material which is cooled,
and the whole system is in the vacuum
chamber, and during the discharge, again
in the magnetic field, during the
discharge the superconducting material
emits gravitational wave, or a portion of
gravitons which propagate in space with
extremely big speed, and are able to
provide some pressure or interact with
the materials in the 
projection area of this impulse. so this
interaction is very short in time,
it's femtoseconds or let's say 1 million
of a second, and we have this impulse
which hits all the
objects in the projection area and
propagates further, not losing any energy.
at least measurable energy. so we began
these experiments about 6 years ago and
our first article was published on the
net in the year 2000, and this is the
theoretical basis of this work was done
by dr. Giovanni Modanese. and this is a
very serious research and it has
extremely good potential because this
gravity impulse is able to propagate
with the speeds close to 64 C, which is
64 times faster than the speed of light,
but we have no limitations because we
don't work with any material objects
they practically have no mass. and this
impulse is able to interact with light.
we made rather interesting research, the
results were published in the journal of
low-temperature physics in August of
2003 and again it's with dr. Modanese. so
this is another application of
high-temperature superconductors and the
discharge, and the force of the discharge
can be, can be rather strong. at first we
were able only to work with the
pendulums and just only, the best thing
that we were able to do was to push a
thick book away from the table.
it was standing, just, a vocabulary. but now
when we studied and we were working with
this program for several years, and I
have a very good team, we were able to
increase the power of this beam so now
it can bend metals, rather thick plates,
and it can create holes in fragile
materials such as bricks or cement or
ceramics. and again if we say
honestly do we understand in details the
mechanism how it works? not everything. if
not everything at all, (laughs) but we are working
on it. and for the purposes of space
research, and for the communication very
fast communication, we can definitely use
this impulse gravity generator. and we
should also study these effects using
different approaches, and the most
complicated the most precise equipment
that we have available in the
world. but we were measuring the
propagation speed of the impulse, we used
two atomic clock and we had the distance
of slightly over than one kilometer, so
we repeated these results several tens
of times and I'm pretty sure that we got
very exact values. still, knowing the
reaction of the scientific community, or
what we call politically correct science,
we're a bit afraid to publish the
results openly, but sooner or later we
will have to do it, when we are
absolutely sure. and again I want to
repeat it we have no intention to break
any laws, and sometimes people say
Oh dr. podkletnov you are trying to
break Einstein's law, even
with the rotating discs, and I want to
remind one more time that Einstein's
theory of relativity is good when we
speak about relative motion. so every
normal motion is relative, but if we
speak about the rotation of the
object around its own axis, it's not
relative motion its absolute motion. and
the theory of relativity is not
applicable to absolute motion, so please
leave dr. einstein aside.

heene:

that's great.
okay okay so obviously you've worked
with NASA a bit. what what practical
applications do you foresee the future
for this knowledge here, for instance
vehicles, is instead of on the road are they
three feet off the ground movin around? 
space travel?
does this answer any questions of black
holes? you know things of that nature

podkletnov:

well I can't say anything about black
holes because it's a separate topic and
again I'm not an expert on this. but if
we speak about new propulsion systems,
definitely these gravity effects can be
used. and even at present the knowledge
that we have, if applied properly, can
result in very efficient propulsion
systems close to what we call UFOs. well
in fact I want to believe that they
exist, and I have nothing against, I have
never seen one in my life. but from the
experience that we have it's possible to
make the objects that will propagate in
space using modification of local
gravity field, using polarization of
vacuum, there are a lot of good
theoretical works in this field and also
a lot of practical works. but somehow
this is a forbidden area maybe because
there are some traditions in physics,
maybe because there are
some contradictions, also military
organizations are always interested in
this, and simply if we speak about
anti-gravity platforms or lifters or
whatever it is, people say there are some
contradictions with physical laws. well,
there are some contradictions. but if we
compare quantum mechanics, which is well
established science in physics and
general relativity, there are enormous
contradictions between these two
theories. which, contradictions in
formulas, in understandings, in basics, and
the whole scientific world closes their
eyes, they don't want to mention it. and
by the way this does not keep people
from using both effects, for example we
use Einstein's approach in atomic bombs,
and we use quantum mechanics for all
electronics and for our portable phones,
and both things work, but they have
contradictions in theory and these
contradictions are really great, so let's
not be afraid of contradictions it's
quite normal.
simply we don't understand physics well
enough. this is a science which should...
it's a subject of evolution. so new ideas,
new understanding, deeper knowledge that
comes with every year. and at present
we have good theories, and in various
countries there are scientists who are
working in the field of experimental
gravity research, and I think it's good
to pay attention to those works, because
the future of our civilization and the
future of modern physics will be in this
area, and it's absolutely clear now.

heene:

you know I'd like for you to repeat on camera
that quote you typed me, I love it. it was,
you said something like, "the one who
controls gravity will control the world"

podkletnov:

well there are some
good sayings, also "gravity will set us
free, but freedom is only for those
people who think differently." and so we
are trying to think differently, and I
think we'll succeed in our research, and
the history of science proves it because
we had normal phones then cell phones, and
we had primitive calculating machines
now have computers, now we go to space,
and practically there are no limits
unless these limits are created
artificially, and that's the thing which
I am afraid of. and there is one more
saying that, one more interesting thing,
people should approach all new changes
and all new research fields with open
mind, because a mind is like a parachute,
it only works when open.

heene:

that's great.
um and you, maybe you guys haven't come
across it yet, but, and this could be like
a very quick answer. when it's spinning
does it cause any kind of radio
interference? if you had a radio playing
would it?

podkletnov:

no, no. this installation doesn't
produce any bad effects, but if we speak
about impulse gravity generator, we put a
Faraday cage over the installation
otherwise all the computers in the
surrounding area will be burned. so there
are some still unexplored fields which
accompany these effects and we notice
them.

heene:

(to cameraman) these questions that you wrote down here
do you know what they are specifically?

cameraman:

um, i can run it. one thing that i wanted to ask,
and i know this might be kind of off bounds as
well, but you're saying that you're using
different materials now as opposed to
superconductors, like normal materials?
what would they be?

podkletnov:

I just wanted to
emphasize that it is not necessary
always to use superconducting materials
for the gravity research but these
materials are very good as model
materials. we can practically create
whatever magnetic fields we want and use
the properties of Bose Einstein
condensate. as far as we understand how
the system works, we can move to normal
materials, because the key to polarizing
space is also rotating magnetic fields,
which work in a certain resonance cycle,
and in order to create these conditions
we don't need superconductors, we just
need normal materials.

cameraman:

okay. I think we pretty much covered this
just wondering, this is more for like,
getting down on the layman side
of things, and kind of go back to like
the applications and implications of your
work - but do you see it,
what kind of, the vehicles of the
future and the weapons of the future and
things like that, that may come through
this 

podkletnov:

well first of all I'm a scientist
I'm not a military person and I try to
keep the results of the research of my
team and of my colleagues on the net
it's open to everyone and I'm ready to
have scientific and industrial contacts
with any organization that is interested
in this research and in these methods.
but definitely everything
can be used for military purposes, the
planes the UFOs if we build one, gravity
impulse generator, but they can also be
used for the purposes of defense. if
we speak about different space bodies
that approach earth with big speed, or if
we speak about drilling to very deep
level inside the earth. if we speak about
propagation system, if we speak about
communications. so there can be different
applications military scientific medical
technical, whatever you say.

heene:

okay, that's perfect.
I was just wondering as well, what are
the general criticisms, or like the
criticism isnt necessarily the right word,
but what are the things you generally
come up against with your peers with this theory?
because obviously it's a groundbreaking
theory. what are the things that challenge
people the most?

podkletnov:

frankly speaking I don't, I've never met
any serious scientific opposition in
this field, because first of all these
results are unique at present. only
several laboratories in the world tried
some simplified approach to the same
problem, but people who worked in this
area for several years who contacted me,
they are convinced that we are not
creating any new science we're just
opening the pages which were not opened
before us. of course some people say you
go against Newton, you go against
Einstein, these are usually the
professors of physics. and then we have a
very interesting discussion and I say
please professor could you tell me what
exactly we are talking about? and after
half an hour or even 10 minutes of
discussion we came to a conclusion that
most of the professor's of physics they
did not study the works of Einstein nor
the works of Sir Isaac Newton. I'm not an
expert on their works, but I spent
several weeks at the library of the
British Museum in London, and I studied
the works of Sir Isaac Newton in the
original. the language is a bit different
but quite understandable. and I'm not
very good at German though I can read, 
but I used all the translations from the
works of Einstein and his lectures and
his books and his articles, and I found
that a lot of things, my experiments the
experiments of my team, they prove a lot
of theoretical statements that were made
by Newton or Einstein, and people who
want to criticize me they practically
have no background in this field, so.

cameraman:

was just a question but obviously you
had the interest from NASA that have
approached you, is this something that
worldwide everyone is interested in, or are you
having to come and really push the point
to get people excited?

podkletnov:

well yeah NASA is
interested definitely. British Aerospace
is interested, people in France are
interested, there is enormous interest
from China because they have very good
theoreticians in this field and they are
building slowly but surely the research
problem in this field. there are certain
difficulties even for people who are
working in this area, because if we if we
discuss the problems of gravity or
anti-gravity it's like a red flag. people
become excited, they... (laughs) it's too unusual to
take it openly, because for many years
these topics were shown only in
scientific literature or science fiction
and also in some films, so now we need a
very good scientific analysis of the
situation, and we need to accept
experimental gravity research as one of
the leading fields in physics. that is
important, even in NASA.
you know NASA is a very conservative
organization,
much more conservative the British
Aerospace. a lot of people are working
there, they are
normal engineers, rather good engineers.
but they have also assistant directors
and managers who would like to continue
their work in NASA for several years
more, and they are not flexible. they try
to base their research even with
International Space Station and shuttle
program on the technology of nuts and
bolts, and that's not the way to explore
space. and the President of the United
States mr. Bush made an excellent
program for NASA and he made a interview
on the TV
concerning the exploration of deeper
space. everything was right, but one thing
was missing, they don't have the
technology which allows this exploration.
so the best thing to do is to
concentrate on the modern aspects of
physics, on experimental gravity research,
and to put even 5% of funding which is
available for the International Space
Station to this research, and in that
case in 10 years we can get a new flying
vehicle which will fly all over the
globe and even to deeper space.

cameraman:

I was wondering if you could elaborate on Eric
Laithewaite's gyroscopes and his results
in mass transfer?

podkletnov:

I don't want to criticize NASA
people, they're hardworking people and
they're determined definitely.
but the administration of NASA has in my
point of view poor understanding what
should be done, and I have my greatest
respect for John Glenn the first
American astronaut and the former member
of the US Congress, and he supported with
all his forces the breakthrough
propulsion system research and the
research which was begun with
superconductors, and each time he came to
Marshall Space Flight Center he was met
with joy and with respect, and people
promised everything and he is a very
wise person he understands what the
future is about. but then he left, and the
research was slowly stopped and now it
is practically at zero point, and
sometimes people still remember John
Glenn and said, "oh, he wanted this
research to be continued." but then modern
administration say "John Glenn he's a very
old guy, he can hardly understand what is
going on." it's their mistake. he
understands perfectly what is going on.

heene:

yes I was just wondering a bit about
Bill and Eric Laithwaite's mass transfer
and his linear motor
and how that and certainly especially his
gyroscopes and the mass transfer,
how that relates to kind of
helped you and how that
related to you?

podkletnov:

as I already mentioned he
was working with absolute motion that is
the fast rotation of the massive body
around its own axis, and it's possible
also to use the rotation around two
axises. so it's a good approach. and
when he demonstrated his findings at London
Imperial College where he worked, it was
a sensation, and everybody could see how
he was holding a very heavy gyroscope on
his finger. the gyroscope was about
25 kilos and he was holding it on his
finger, and he was not a very strong man
but quite a usual professor. and it's a
measurable effect which can be repeated,
which can be used, but unfortunately I
think two months after he demonstrated
this effect he was fired from this
prestigious university and they continue
their own line.
professor Laithwaite went to the United
States, and he organized a nice
research there, but unfortunately he got
ill and soon after that he passed away.
so but that's one more proof how
difficult it is to work in this area,
because modern science is like Holy inquisition.
that's why I am a bit afraid.

heene:

just again for the layman was wondering
if you could describe the term zero point 

podkletnov:

zero point energy or well it's,
let's say it in simple words. we deal with
normal bodies, body can be solid gas
liquid and plasma. but we also deal with
subatomic particles which have their
size forty orders of magnitude smaller
than the electron, and there are various
kinds of these particles. they have their
own laws of energy, of mechanical motion,
of super fluidity, of pressure and of
let's say coherence because we can speak
about Scalar fields, we can speak about
coherent vacuum. it's becoming a bit
complicated I understand, but we can deal
with these subatomic particles, they form
the aether or the fundamental particles,
and the whole universe is made of these
particles. so it's possible to extract
energy from this sea, from this ocean of
particles. it's possible to navigate
inside this media. it's possible to
create wormholes. it's possible to travel
with a speed much more than the speed of
light, because the laws which govern
these subatomic particles are different.
we are now only approaching
the stage where we can understand or
analyze these laws. they are still not
known to us, but nothing stops us from
studying them, and gravity research
should be one of the first in this field,
because it's
important for our civilization, important
for our future. well anyway, it's good to
have a flying saucer instead of the car
just parked near your balcony.
and it should be silver definitely. (laughs)

heene:

haha yeah.
okay I got a question here, okay. is there
anything, okay. man, a long time ago looked to the
sky, and he saw a bird flying, and he said
"I'd like to be able to do that!" so he had
a model, he had something to build or to
idealize, to dream about, to want to fly.
is there anything that you know about on
the planet, besides the disc, that could demonstrate
anti-gravity? right well don't say anti-gravity,
we want to say gravity manipulation

podkletnov:

there are different places on earth
where we have gravity anomalies. there
are some places in the United States,
there are some places in Britain, there
are some places in other countries,
sometimes they are situated on the land
sometimes on the sea surface, and from
time to time these areas become active.
well we know about Bermuda Triangle, lots
of science fiction things written about
these areas, but we also know about
different crashes of airplanes, and
they happen in different parts of the
world. so there are some theories which
prove that some parts of our globe have
anomalies in gravity
properties in the properties of magnetic
fields, electric fields, and when the
earth is rotating around itself and
around the Sun, these areas become active
in a certain order. and then we have very
unusual effects, because if we turn to
the statistics of air crashes, sometimes
when the plane plane crashes, it travels
about half a kilometre or 1 kilometer
about a mile on the surface, which is
understandable, but sometimes the plane
crashes and it gives the exact print on
the land, and it can be explained only by
anomalies in the gravity field. and the
earth still contains a lot of puzzles,
which we do not know, but which should be
studied. so this is if we refer to nature,
but also we live in the artificial world
and we can we have artificial means and
we have even now enough knowledge to
make experiments in this field. and these
experiments are needed, because each time
I see the shuttle going to space I
understand that it is a very big bomb
going to space and a very big risk for
the Astronauts.
that's why applying new propulsion
systems and the systems which allow to
operate with gravity forces we can make
those trips much safer, much easier, and
less expensive than the existing
programs. also if we deal with energy
production, these new methods will allow
us to extract energy
from different sources and to stop
the use of oil, which in my understanding
should be used not for the for the
vehicles but only for chemistry, new
plastic materials or something of this
kind.

cameraman:

did you did you cover the way
that, like in the future like
interstellar exploration, obviously you
use the gravitational pull of different
planets to give you a lot of your
propulsion, but how would a
gravitational manipulation device work?
would you have to kind of, see where
the nearest gravitational field is and
like, take planets as you go past them or...

podkletnov:

well I have some projects which were
created in collaboration with and some
drawings in collaboration with my American
colleagues and my colleagues from Italy,
from Great Britain, from Russia, and from
China, also from Canada sorry I forgot,
and it's possible to use Biefield-Brown
effect which is a kind of electrostatic
propulsion, and to use the phenomenon
which we call the polarization of space.
when we create the polarization of space,
under the conditions of normal earth,
that means that we create a kind of a
gravity well, and all
the objects that are close to this area,
they will fall into this well. so we
observe this phenomena as a UFO or any
flying disc which goes up,
but in fact speaking in physical terms,
that means that this object is falling
inside a gravity well. so this is about
how we can propagate about close to the earth.
if we speak about other planets, it's a
bit early now to discuss how it can be
done, but using the same principle,
polarization of space and a possibility
to move in the media of sub quantum
particles, everything is possible. but as
I mentioned, first of all I am not an
expert on gravity, second thing I'm not a
magician, I'm just learning. maybe I will
become one.