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From: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <17636B68-7A3A-4412-96D7-38CCA7C44E27@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 16:56:14 -0700
Message-Id: <8C9DD3A9-05EF-4F92-89D3-4F72B39B7D8D@gmail.com>
References: <20150619103959.GA32315@savin.petertodd.org>
	<c2a392703d02e1d674a029c60deb6d94@riseup.net>
	<20150619151127.GA11263@savin.petertodd.org>
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	<17636B68-7A3A-4412-96D7-38CCA7C44E27@gmail.com>
To: =?utf-8?Q?Jorge_Tim=C3=B3n?= <jtimon@jtimon.cc>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	Justus Ranvier <justusranvier@riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] F2Pool has enabled full replace-by-fee
Precedence: list


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> On Jun 20, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On Jun 20, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Jorge Tim=C3=B3n <jtimon@jtimon.cc> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>> The Bitcoin network was designed (or should be designed) with the =
requirement that it can withstand deliberate double-spend attacks that =
can come from anywhere at any time=E2=80=A6
>>=20
>> I disagree with this premise. Please, don't take this as an argument
>> from authority fallacy, but I will cite Satoshi to express what I
>> think the assumptions while using the system should be:
>>=20
>> "As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are
>> not cooperating to attack the network, they'll generate the longest
>> chain and outpace attackers."
>>=20
>> I can't say for sure what was meant by "attacking the network" in =
this
>> context but I personally mean trying to rewrite valid and
>> proof-of-work-timestamped history.
>> Unconfirmed transactions are simply not part of history yet. Ordering
>> unconfirmed transactions in a consensus compatible way without a
>> universal clock is impossible, that's why we're using proof of work =
in
>> the first place.
>>=20
>> Alternative policies are NOT attacks on the network.
>=20
> Just to be clear, Jorge, I wasn=E2=80=99t suggesting that unconfirmed =
transactions are part of any sort of global consensus. In fact, they =
very much AREN=E2=80=99T. Which is exactly why it is extremely dangerous =
to accept unconfirmed transactions as final unless you clearly have =
assessed the risks and it makes sense for the particular business use =
case.
>=20
> - Eric Lombrozo

I think the misunderstanding was in perhaps my earlier statement seemed =
like I was suggesting that it=E2=80=99s the protocol=E2=80=99s =
responsibility to protect merchants from double-spends. On the contrary =
- I think we agree - the protocol CANNOT make any guarantees to ANYONE =
until we do converge on a history. The =E2=80=9Cdesign=E2=80=9D I speak =
of here is more on the merchant side.

- Eric Lombrozo

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