Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 902EEACB for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 17:20:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from outmail148114.authsmtp.net (outmail148114.authsmtp.net [62.13.148.114]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C709217A for ; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 17:20:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235]) by punt16.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t5RHKEFS090368; Sat, 27 Jun 2015 18:20:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from muck (cpe-74-66-142-58.nyc.res.rr.com [74.66.142.58]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t5RHKCIj096067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 27 Jun 2015 18:20:14 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:20:11 -0400 From: Peter Todd To: Michael Naber Message-ID: <20150627172011.GB18729@muck> References: <1EF70EBC-8BB8-4A93-8591-52B2B0335F6C@petertodd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wac7ysb48OaltWcw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Server-Quench: c6049de4-1cf0-11e5-b396-002590a15da7 X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at: http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR aAdMdAUUEkAaAgsB AmMbWlxeUl17WGc7 bA5PawNDY05MQQBi T01BRU1TWkFtY2R6 dWdEUhB0dwNBNn9x YEdlECNdXEBzIRN5 X08HQ20bZGY1bX1N U0leagNUcgZDfk5E bwQuUz1vNG8XDSg5 AwQ0PjZ0MThBHWx8 CjkXKkoVWksHVhU7 QggYGjAuBkBNWyJ7 MxwrYnQYG00Sen4z I1ZpfVMdMgN6 X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706 X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255) X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 74.66.142.58/587 X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own anti-virus system. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Proposed Compromise to the Block Size Limit X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 17:20:17 -0000 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 12:19:04PM -0400, Michael Naber wrote: > That test seems like a reasonable suggestion; 840GB is not prohibitive > given today's computing costs. What other than the successful result of > that test would you want to see before agreeing to increase the block size > to 8MB? The two main things you need to show is: 1) Small, anonymous, miners remain approximately as profitable as large miners, regardless of whether they are in the world, and even when miners are under attack. Remember I'm talking about mining here, not just hashing - the process of selling your hashpower to someone else who is actually doing the mining. As for "approximately as profitable", based on a 10% profit margin, a 5% profitability difference between a negligable ~0% hashing power miner and a 50% hashing power miner is a good standard here. The hard part here is basically keeping orphan rates low, as the %5 profitability different on %10 profit margin implies an orphan rate of about 0.5% - roughly what we have right now if not actually a bit lower. That also implies blocks propagate across the network in just a few seconds in the worst case, where blocks are being generated with transactions in them that are not already in mempools - circumventing propagation optimization techniques. As we're talking about small miners, we can't assume the miners are directly conneted to each other. (which itself is dangerous from an attack point of view - if they're directly connected they can be DoS attacked) 2) Medium to long term plan to pay for hashing power. Without scarcity of blockchain space there is no reason to think that transaction fees won't fall to the marginal cost of including a transaction, which doesn't leave anything to pay for proof-of-work security. A proposal meeting this criteria will have to be clever if you don't keep the blocksize sufficiently limited that transaction fees are non-negligable. One possible approach - if probably politically non-viable - would be to change the inflation schedule so that the currency is inflated indefinitely. --=20 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 0000000000000000007fc13ce02072d9cb2a6d51fae41fefcde7b3b283803d24 --wac7ysb48OaltWcw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGrBAEBCACVBQJVjttIXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDdmYzEzY2UwMjA3MmQ5Y2IyYTZkNTFmYWU0MWZlZmNk ZTdiM2IyODM4MDNkMjQvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0 ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQwIXyHOf0udxzVwgAiXBxl6bWS4pmRa/6JGG8ang8 ACT0p+IhjRzxRJ+FJrktnFYrDPLRFnFvTS6G7HZS+T2/tgABqLR8jtLRFyYx0GlT NsBVOBE4prf1yxlXGDOpP6mPfDmGVwbHEb5SPzEFDVp43SQgdlDXbA+tkNEmNgyY SVAhbKPSeXKl8yskKfOWj5V3GagowYov46apcL6nBbDmK+TFHHBssEORH/41nzaP vVVVXk8xEHusoGOnuzoGf6D3/QjpgO5tvblCRGt47SNp0vxUF15NArJmvCfW7xWd NS9lw4SGMqBp1xtzBkEr6IY1QI9kKp0iXnyn8o9N4E3uhVHzdj5WL5BNVWg+tg== =CTZB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wac7ysb48OaltWcw--