Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:07:03 -0600
From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org>
To: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140210190703.GO3180@nl.grid.coop>
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Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] MtGox blames bitcoin
Precedence: list

If you've got any ideas for a better forum, let me know.

MtGox is one of the largest public faces of the code being developed here. If
the public perception is that this is a bitcoin protocol flaw, then we need
some damned strong and compelling public arguments about why it ain't so. But
after some thought, that's not the critical issue I want to raise on this list.

If something about the implementation, the protocol, of bitcoin-qt or bitcoind
makes it easy for an attacker to mutate transactions and hard for an 'end-user'
such as MtGox to confirm payments, then we've got a fundamental user-interface
flaw.

We can get all indignant about RTFM or telling the users they are idiots, but
that's not really going to be good for long-term adoption and use.

My opinion is part of the development process should be to react to public
perceptions of how the code is being used (and mis-used), and how the market is
being manipulated, and try to improve it so the whole system is stable,
predictable, and friendly to users.


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 01:45:58PM -0500, Jameson Lopp wrote:
> You have plenty of good points, but they are not relevant to this mailing list. I suggest you take them elsewhere.
> --
> Jameson Lopp
> Software Engineer
> Bronto Software, Inc
> 
> On 02/10/2014 01:25 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 08:45:03AM -0800, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> >> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org> wrote:
> >>> Name me one single person with commit access to the bitcoin github repository
> >>> who is *independent* of any venture capital or other 'investment' connections.
> >>
> >> I am, unless you count the fact that I own some Bitcoin and some
> >> mining hardware as "'investment' connections" (and that case your
> >> comments are worthless).
> >>
> >> (By not naming anyone else I don't mean to imply there are no others,
> >> but I don't want to speak for anyone else. Nor would I necessarily
> >> expect the other part(ies|y) to step forward, since this mostly
> >> appears to be an invitation to step up and be attacked.)
> > 
> > Thank you.
> > 
> > I also appreciate your commentary[1], and willingness to list your investment
> > position. What I'm concerned about are people who have signed non-disclosure 
> > agreements or who's salary/equity/whatever depend on people who are experts
> > at manipulating markets to take naive investors money.
> > 
> > Independent is also a state of mind as much as it is about financial connections.
> > 
> > What pisses me off here is that a huge amount of wealth just changed hands based
> > on MtGox's press release, and it stinks of insider trading. I still maintain the
> > best outcome would be for MtGox to AGPLv3 release their code, and then those of 
> > us that understand it would be able to have a public technical discussion about
> > how to fix it, and MtGox would still maintain their intellectual property
> > ownership position.
> > 
> > This, however, cuts off a significant revenue stream for people who take money
> > making market bets 5 minutes before the information goes public, so I expect
> > the likelyhood of such an outbreak of sanity is quite low.
> > 
> > [1] http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/10/mt-gox-blames-bitcoin-core-developer-greg-maxwell-responds/
> > 
> > 
> > DISCLAIMER: I have a significant emotional investment in copyleft/viral copyright
> > development models, and I expect to take a lot of money charging people to write
> > code I give away for free. I also occasionally make money from cryptocurrency
> > mining, but only when I can sell it in functional and transparent markets.
> > 
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