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Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 23:25:03 -0400
Message-ID: <CADm_WcbufxsR+MrJ3hkMY60QC9a0v7xKf5VJkK59zxi5pwQxJQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@gmail.com>
To: Jeremy Rubin <jeremy.l.rubin.travel@gmail.com>
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Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Defining a min spec
Precedence: list

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If the freedom to pick architecture exists, Moxie is a nice, compact, easy
to audit alternative:
     http://moxielogic.org/blog/pages/architecture.html
     https://github.com/jgarzik/moxiebox

Scaling can occur at the core level, rather than hyper-pipelining, keeping
the architecture itself nice and clean and simple.



On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Jeremy Rubin <
jeremy.l.rubin.travel@gmail.com> wrote:

> Might I suggest that the min-spec, if developed, target the RISC-V Rocket
> architecture (running on FPGA, I suppose) as a reference point for
> performance? This may be much lower performance than desirable, however, =
it
> means that we don't lock people into using large-vendor chipsets which ha=
ve
> unknown, or known to be bad, security properties such as Intel AMT.
>
> In general, targeting open hardware seems to me to be more critical than
> performance metrics for the long term health of Bitcoin, however,
> performance is still important.
>
> Does anyone know how the RISC-V FPGA performance stacks up to, say, a
> Raspberry Pi?
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Owen Gunden <ogunden@phauna.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm also a user who runs a full node, and I also like this idea. I think
>> Gavin has done some back-of-the-envelope calculations around this stuff,
>> but nothing so clearly defined as what you propose.
>>
>> On 07/02/2015 08:33 AM, Mistr Bigs wrote:
>>
>>> I'm an end user running a full node on an aging laptop.
>>> I think this is a great suggestion! I'd love to know what system
>>> requirements are needed for running Bitcoin Core.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jean-Paul Kogelman
>>> <jeanpaulkogelman@me.com <mailto:jeanpaulkogelman@me.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I=E2=80=99m a game developer. I write time critical code for a livi=
ng and
>>>     have to deal with memory, CPU, GPU and I/O budgets on a daily basis=
.
>>>     These budgets are based on what we call a minimum specification (of
>>>     hardware); min spec for short. In most cases the min spec is based
>>>     on entry model machines that are available during launch, and will
>>>     give the user an enjoyable experience when playing our games.
>>>     Obviously, we can turn on a number of bells and whistles for people
>>>     with faster machines, but that=E2=80=99s not the point of this mail=
.
>>>
>>>     The point is, can we define a min spec for Bitcoin Core? The number
>>>     one reason for this is: if you know how your changes affect your
>>>     available budgets, then the risk of breaking something due to
>>>     capacity problems is reduced to practically zero.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">If the freedom to pick architecture exists, Moxie is a nic=
e, compact, easy to audit alternative:<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"h=
ttp://moxielogic.org/blog/pages/architecture.html">http://moxielogic.org/bl=
og/pages/architecture.html</a></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"htt=
ps://github.com/jgarzik/moxiebox">https://github.com/jgarzik/moxiebox</a></=
div><div><br></div><div>Scaling can occur at the core level, rather than hy=
per-pipelining, keeping the architecture itself nice and clean and simple.<=
/div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Jeremy Rubin <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jeremy.l.rubin.travel@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jeremy.l.rubin.travel@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000=
01907349px">Might I suggest that the=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.8000001907349px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">min</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">-</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.80000=
01907349px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">spec</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.8000001907349px">, if developed, target the RISC-V Rocket archite=
cture (running on FPGA, I suppose) as a reference point for performance? Th=
is may be much lower performance than desirable, however, it means that we =
don&#39;t lock people into using large-vendor chipsets which have unknown, =
or known to be bad, security properties such as Intel AMT.</span><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8000=
001907349px">In general, targeting open hardware seems to me to be more cri=
tical than performance metrics for the long term health of Bitcoin, however=
, performance is still important.<div><br></div><div>Does anyone know how t=
he RISC-V FPGA performance stacks up to, say, a Raspberry Pi?</div></div></=
div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Owen Gunden <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ogunden@phauna.org" target=3D"_blank">=
ogunden@phauna.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
I&#39;m also a user who runs a full node, and I also like this idea. I thin=
k Gavin has done some back-of-the-envelope calculations around this stuff, =
but nothing so clearly defined as what you propose.<span><br>
<br>
On 07/02/2015 08:33 AM, Mistr Bigs wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>
I&#39;m an end user running a full node on an aging laptop.<br>
I think this is a great suggestion! I&#39;d love to know what system<br>
requirements are needed for running Bitcoin Core.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Jean-Paul Kogelman<br></span><span>
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jeanpaulkogelman@me.com" target=3D"_blank">jeanpaulko=
gelman@me.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jeanpaulkogelman@me.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jeanpaulkogelman@me.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m a game developer. I write time critical code for =
a living and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 have to deal with memory, CPU, GPU and I/O budgets on a daily=
 basis.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 These budgets are based on what we call a minimum specificati=
on (of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 hardware); min spec for short. In most cases the min spec is =
based<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on entry model machines that are available during launch, and=
 will<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 give the user an enjoyable experience when playing our games.=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Obviously, we can turn on a number of bells and whistles for =
people<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 with faster machines, but that=E2=80=99s not the point of thi=
s mail.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The point is, can we define a min spec for Bitcoin Core? The =
number<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one reason for this is: if you know how your changes affect y=
our<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available budgets, then the risk of breaking something due to=
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 capacity problems is reduced to practically zero.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></span><span>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br>
</span></blockquote><div><div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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