Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5C82CA5 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:35:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-wm0-f45.google.com (mail-wm0-f45.google.com [74.125.82.45]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9531A17B for ; Wed, 7 Jun 2017 17:35:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-f45.google.com with SMTP id d73so16007920wma.0 for ; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 10:35:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ethereum.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lkMcGerU7Eb+/MxOs88pMkoWGyEts7fJ+cTd73cGdeU=; b=P2wo0pdBYQsIzz+XJU7GpzLj0JgoIljEa2LEWJSJNQMd4Qa/zud6/TAwFcIviWOpZE r+1f2eQR5Y37ZUGV16qbQAsn3wMwGdx/Wn2noGZr1WmgKPBWFYOlRKBkjPGW3UpvJUs7 C5kyWaNiNl2tscWjGQF3hlziidXq55iWbULaE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lkMcGerU7Eb+/MxOs88pMkoWGyEts7fJ+cTd73cGdeU=; b=VJFVd3cTkjFl6mrJZxrIHJ8ZyW+LB1fPbXjLAPLoiGosDzvJjwShkpWDQDWe+Yisl0 tYKwwnJGHqRmhUZjR7FXy4l8TDNUHIRfyjTDQoe1HiWzC4o+oF2L77iP8B888KjgB210 Vtkb1nVfQN6g272M9bx7FEgZJ/QGmQjbIaWqoWmbAaeZz2ikfa0Mq3e8edrHQRSVXel2 P3OqLQTxYGed4ZsbZhk/aVcowpacxtHBtghPZL/C44AsIL6N/ON9+o9pLZ7ajXOb/LrP dO2qtTV+oKrjyi3FpwNzIEBUJ2GgBQLqyds5ysJtt/K2L6YDc2kiikKkcdhuQBbo4Tfx jpwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwCzMYeVIWhq+k+V1E+smxkih4ci4RtvWXePT+1NvgKr1UaCcn9 Z/yeWgD9Ecr9xPqOPBQ2UmuAr9CP1AJ/ X-Received: by 10.28.10.6 with SMTP id 6mr582310wmk.5.1496856928228; Wed, 07 Jun 2017 10:35:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <31833011-7179-49D1-A07E-8FD9556C4534@taoeffect.com> In-Reply-To: From: Nick Johnson Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: To: Tao Effect Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11442e447cac370551622952" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:11:41 +0000 Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Replay attacks make BIP148 and BIP149 untennable X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 17:35:31 -0000 --001a11442e447cac370551622952 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 5:27 PM Tao Effect wrote: > Nick, > > Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard > fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited. > > > This sort of email is unhelpful to this conversation, and it certainly > doesn't help with the perception that Ethereum is nothing but a bunch of > hypocritical Bankers 2.0. > > > Everyone knows you didn't edit Ethereum Classic, but the the hard fork, > which was re-branded as Ethereum, was edited. > That's not what I was suggesting. My point is that the ledger was never edited. An 'irregular state change' was added at a specific block height, but the ledger remains inviolate. I'm sure I don't have to explain the difference between the ledger and the state to you, or why it's significant that the ledger wasn't (and can't be, practically) modified. -Nick > - Greg > > -- > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with > the NSA. > > On Jun 7, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Nick Johnson wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 12:02 AM Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev >> wrote: >> > I believe the severity of replay attacks is going unvoiced and is not >> > understood within the bitcoin community because of their lack of >> experience >> > with them. >> >> Please don't insult our community-- the issues with replay were >> pointed out by us to Ethereum in advance and were cited specifically >> in prior hardfork discussions long before Ethereum started editing >> their ledger for the economic benefit of its centralized >> administrators. > > > Please don't spread misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard > fork, it's a simple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited. > > -Nick Johnson > > > --001a11442e447cac370551622952 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed= , Jun 7, 2017 at 5:27 PM Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com> wrote:
Nick,

Please don't spread misinformation.= Whatever you think of the DAO hard fork, it's a simple fact that the E= thereum ledger was not edited.

This sort of email is unhelpful to this co= nversation, and it certainly doesn't help with the perception that Ethe= reum is nothing but a bunch of hypocritical Bankers 2.0.
<= /div>
=C2=A0

Everyone knows you didn't edit Et= hereum Classic, but the the hard fork, which was re-branded as Ethereum, wa= s edited.

That's not what I was suggesting. My point is that the ledger was ne= ver edited. An 'irregular state change' was added at a specific blo= ck height, but the ledger remains inviolate.

I'= ;m sure I don't have to explain the difference between the ledger and t= he state to you, or why it's significant that the ledger wasn't (an= d can't be, practically) modified.

-Nick
=


- Greg

--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable = also sharing=C2=A0with the NSA.

On Jun 7, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Nick Johnson <nick@ethereum.org> wrote:=

On Wed, Jun 7, 20= 17 at 12:02 AM Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf= oundation.org> wrote:
On Tue= , Jun 6, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> I believe the severity of replay attacks is going unvoiced and is not<= br> > understood within the bitcoin community because of their lack of exper= ience
> with them.

Please don't insult our community-- the issues with replay were
pointed out by us to Ethereum in advance and were cited specifically
in prior hardfork discussions long before Ethereum started editing
their ledger for the economic benefit of its centralized
administrators.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
Please don't sp= read misinformation. Whatever you think of the DAO hard fork, it's a si= mple fact that the Ethereum ledger was not edited.

-Nick Johnson

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