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[142.179.7.88]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b14sm14985155pji.14.2021.02.28.05.07.24 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 28 Feb 2021 05:07:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: , X-Referenced-Uid: 24129 Thread-Topic: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK X-Blue-Identity: !l=823&o=96429&fo=112888&pl=736&po=0&qs=PREFIX&f=HTML&n=Ariel%20Lorenzo-Luaces&e=arielluaces%40gmail.com&m=!%3AZjEwN2MyYjMtOWE0OC00NzJhLWEzYTQtYjc3MTEzNTNhODJm%3ASU5CT1g%3D%3AMjQxMjk%3D%3AANSWERED&p=715&q=SHOW User-Agent: Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----006VGGS4YHKPF8CHFQQKA32U1QWQIH" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Local-Message-Id: From: Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 05:07:21 -0800 To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 16:23:41 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:07:28 -0000 ------006VGGS4YHKPF8CHFQQKA32U1QWQIH Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH I find a striking dichotomy between y= our concern of increased privacy in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixe= r in your signature www=2Ego-overt=2Ecom At first your concerns seemed gen= uine but after seeing your promotion of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your c= oncerns may be more profit motivated? I can't tell since you failed to disc= lose your relationship with the mixer=2E Could you please clarify your ass= ociation with the bitcoin mixer and moving forward could you please always = do proper disclosure any time you're publically talking about bitcoin trans= action privacy=2E It's only fair to do so as to not mislead people in an at= tempt to manipulate at worst and just a courteous practice at best=2E Chee= rs Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces On Feb 28, 2021, 4:36 AM, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EX= CELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev wrote: >Good Evening, > >Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin >on the basis you advise, "Taproot does not en= able monero-like privacy >features", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK notab= ly that the existing >feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and whereby = the UTXO of a >transaction is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and the amou= nt all >without any obfuscation=2E > >Lightning does not really provide obf= uscation, it provides a result of >a subset of transactions although the op= eration of the channel is >observable to the parties=2E > >The reports I we= re reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot >published in a pub= lic media channel may have been speculation or >misinformation nonetheless = it is prudent to conditionally reply as you >see that I have=2E It is impor= tant not to allow things to slip through >the cracks=2E As you may believe = may astute reviewers could make a full >disclosure to this list it is not t= o be expected=2E > >KING JAMES HRMH >Great British Empire > >Regards, >The = Australian >LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) >of Hougun Manor & Glen= coe & British Empire >MR=2E Damian A=2E James Williamson >Wills > >et al=2E= > > >Willtech >www=2Ewilltech=2Ecom=2Eau >www=2Ego-overt=2Ecom = >and other projects > >earn=2Ecom/willtech >linkedin=2Ecom/in/damianwilliam= son > > >m=2E 0487135719 >f=2E +61261470192 > > >This email does not consti= tute a general advice=2E Please disregard this >email if misdelivered=2E >_= _______________________________ >From: Jeremy >Sent: Su= nday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM >To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH ; Bitcoin >Protocol Discussion >Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK > >I have good n= ews for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy >features any more= so than already exist in Bitcoin today=2E At its core, >taproot is a way to= make transactions with embedded smart contracts >less expensive, done so i= n a manner that may marginally improve privacy >dependent on user behavior = (but not in the monero-like way you >mention)=2E For example, it makes it p= ossible for lightning channels to >look structurally similar to single key = wallets, but it does nothing >inherently to obfuscate the transaction graph= as in monero=2E > >Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may al= ready exist in >Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, = lightning, >etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot=2E >= >Do you have a source on your reporting? > >You may wish to rescind your n= ack=2E > > >-- >@JeremyRubin > > >On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCEL= LENCY JAMES HRMH via >bitcoin-dev >> >wrote: >Good Afterno= on, > >It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like featu= res >including the ability to hide transactions=2E > >If that is the case I= offer a full NACK and let me explain=2E > >A part of the benefit of using = Bitcoin is its honesty=2E The full >transaction is published on the blockch= ain=2E If that were to change so >that transactions may be obfuscated from = scrutiny then any government >would have unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, = and speculation has that >is the reason India has been reported to have ban= ned cryptocurrencies >already=2E > >I am in support of the expanded use cas= e of Bitcoin without harming the >established robust fairness and equal equ= ity offered=2E The core >functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain = unaltered=2E > >KING JAMES HRMH >Great British Empire > >Regards, >The Aust= ralian >LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) >of Hougun Manor & Glencoe = & British Empire >MR=2E Damian A=2E James Williamson >Wills > >et al=2E > >= >Willtech >www=2Ewilltech=2Ecom=2Eau >ww= w=2Ego-overt=2Ecom >and other projects > >earn= =2Ecom/willtech >linkedin=2Ecom/in/damianwillia= mson > > >m=2E 0487135719 >f=2E = +61261470192 > > >This email does not constitute a general advice=2E Please= disregard this >email if misdelivered=2E >________________________________= _______________ >bitcoin-dev mailing list >bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundat= ion=2Eorg >https://lists= =2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > >----------------= -------------------------------------------------------- > >_______________= ________________________________ >bitcoin-dev mailing list >bitcoin-dev@lis= ts=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg >https://lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg/mailman/l= istinfo/bitcoin-dev ------006VGGS4YHKPF8CHFQQKA32U1QWQIH Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES = HRMH

I find a striking dichotomy between yo= ur concern of increased privacy in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer= in your signature www=2Ego-overt= =2Ecom

At first your concerns seemed ge= nuine but after seeing your promotion of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your = concerns may be more profit motivated? I can't tell since you failed to dis= close your relationship with the mixer=2E

C= ould you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and moving = forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time you're public= ally talking about bitcoin transaction privacy=2E It's only fair to do so a= s to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at worst and just a cou= rteous practice at best=2E

Cheers
=
Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces
On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-= dev <bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg> wrote:
Good Evening,

Thank= -you for your advice   = @JeremyRubi= n  on the basis you = advise, "Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepre= d to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST b= e maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the Pa= yTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation=2E
=
Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it pro= vides a result of a subset of transactions although the operation of the ch= annel is observable to the parties=2E

= The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot pu= blished in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformati= on nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have= =2E It is important not to allow things to slip through the cracks=2E As yo= u may believe may astute reviewers could make a full disclosure to this lis= t it is not to be expected=2E

KING JA= MES HRMH
Great British Empire

=
Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS = EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Gl= encoe & British Empire
MR=2E Damian A=2E James Williams= on
Wills

et al=2E

 
Willtech
=
and other projects
 
earn=2Ecom/willtech
li= nkedin=2Ecom/in/damianwilliamson

m=2E 0487135719
f=2E +61261470192


This = email does not constitute a general advice=2E Please disregard this email i= f misdelivered=2E
= From: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit=2Eedu>
Sent: Sunday, 28 F= ebruary 2021 3:14 AM
To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <will= tech@live=2Ecom=2Eau>; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists= =2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot = NACK
 
I have good news for you:= Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features any moreso than alrea= dy exist in Bitcoin today=2E At its core, taproot is a way to make transact= ions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, done so in a manner that= may marginally improve privacy dependent on user behavior (but not in the = monero-like way you mention)=2E For example, it makes it possible for light= ning channels to look structurally similar to single key wallets, but it do= es nothing inherently to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero=2E =

<= /div>
Such "monero-like" tra= nsaction graph obfuscation may already exist in Bitcoin via other technique= s (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc) with or without Taproot, so= the point is further moot=2E

Do you have a source on your reporting?

You may wish to rescind your nack=2E


= On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-= dev < b= itcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg> wrote:
=
Good Afternoon,

It has = been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features including = the ability to hide transactions=2E
=
If that is the case I offe= r a full NACK and let me explain=2E
=
A part of the benefit of u= sing Bitcoin is its honesty=2E The full transaction is published on the blo= ckchain=2E If that were to change so that transactions may be obfuscated fr= om scrutiny then any government would have unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin= , and speculation has that is the reason India has been reported to have ba= nned cryptocurrencies already=2E
<= br>
I am in support of the expand= ed use case of Bitcoin without harming the established robust fairness and = equal equity offered=2E The core functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must= remain unaltered=2E

= KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire
=

=
=
Regards,
= The Australian
LOR= D HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
= of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR=2E Damian A=2E James Williamson =
Wills

et al=2E =

=
 
Willtech = <= div> w= ww=2Ego-overt=2Ecom
and ot= her projects
  =
=


=
m=2E 0487135719
f=2E +61261470192
=


=
This email does not constitute a general advice=2E Please disregard this e= mail if misdelivered=2E
<= /div>
_______________= ________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg
https://lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg= /mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev 
 

bitcoin-dev mailing list
bi=
tcoin-dev@lists=2Elinuxfoundation=2Eorg
https://lists=2Elinuxfoundat=
ion=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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