Received: from sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.194] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Xaw62-0006ZK-EN for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 00:24:14 +0000 Received: from mail-wi0-f176.google.com ([209.85.212.176]) by sog-mx-4.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1Xaw61-0004MJ-9O for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 06 Oct 2014 00:24:14 +0000 Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id hi2so3093766wib.9 for ; Sun, 05 Oct 2014 17:24:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ig+GvFAPRaHhhpSfs1i3Z/zCMrnsknDT7SrGxZc0RjE=; b=Koz4n6z8AKQ5BTpUgxrKIwMQg2GyDVJ1TgUh2sgzFm0zcZXaI+VcwpU0mQX8XZbcyv sW/UHLgaahl2VmezM5PJoFqLqkMkBJRsk5U3st8sanaufmO/QnHz7svhBK/52sMFnhic Cg7DPgKvKzjKyp1Y6fCFk5V8F9kk88ufdKug6XBmPEA99FLAIrSxuvwQHjC1vIUXD6Pb GPsIzmyY0RFFJkGPU/cVBw0CmvQiCd6fq5bl3wc2//+cN8btudyEKe/UyrnVwjwFM4t5 lAMlBEmtx8zhC8bdsISZbiQWNAopldPi+JfsjQBWF3Cpo8cAMd9EnLnZakYv5vuDvSxl TL+w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl0/l04mLRCC+9tJaZnGpAKYgVEkVwPcXwF9GhnSJ9uCTW1tm46fRHMhjrsEANwf80G/kcX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.223.100 with SMTP id qt4mr6062824wic.35.1412553278069; Sun, 05 Oct 2014 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.137.214 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Oct 2014 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5431CD8D.7050508@certimix.com> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2014 01:54:38 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm9yZ2UgVGltw7Nu?= To: Gregory Maxwell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. X-Headers-End: 1Xaw61-0004MJ-9O Cc: Bitcoin Development Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The Bitcoin Freeze on Transaction Attack (FRONT) X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 00:24:14 -0000 On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:40 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > Something you might want to try to formalize in your analysis is the > proportion of the network which is "rational" vs > "honest"/"altruistic". Intuitively, if there is a significant amount > of honest hashrate which is refusing to aid the greedy behavior even > at a potential loss to themselves this strategy becomes a loser even > for the purely greedy participants. It would be interesting to > characterize the income tradeoffs for different amounts of altruism, > or whatever convergence problems an attempt by altruistic > participaints to punish the forkers might create. Not only that, greedy miners may actually have an incentive to just follow the longest chain. Say I'm a small miner and I know that the chances of re-mining the high tx and getting that block into the longest chain are minimal or null. Then I will probably prefer to just mine on top of the longest chain. So "If everyone acts rationally in his own interest, then the best choice for the remaining miners is to try to mine a competing block at the same height n including the high-fee transaction, to collect the fee for themselves" is not necessarily true. p * 50 can be lower than q * 25 if p < 2*q. P and q depend on what everyone is doing, not just you. In any case, it is interesting to think about this things since mining subsidies will eventually disappear and then transaction fees will ALWAYS be higher than subsidies.