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From: Jared Lee Richardson <jaredr26@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 13:32:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CAD1TkXtze_TVegXz4AeJCxK59+cuwRQ=w4upzX+HoQ90Py52OA@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Vorick <david.vorick@gmail.com>, 
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c1228a64a59ae054be47846
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Hard fork proposal from last week's meeting
Precedence: list

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> Perhaps you are fortunate to have a home computer that has more than a
single 512GB SSD. Lots of consumer hardware has that little storage.

That's very poor logic, sorry.  Restricted-space SSD's are not a
cost-effective hardware option for running a node.  Keeping blocksizes
small has significant other costs for everyone.  Comparing the cost of
running a node under arbitrary conditons A, B, or C when there are far more
efficient options than any of those is a very bad way to think about the
costs of running a node.  You basically have to ignore the significant
consequences of keeping blocks small.

If node operational costs rose to the point where an entire wide swath of
users that we do actually need for security purposes could not justify
running a node, that's something important for consideration.  For me, that
translates to modern hardware that's relatively well aligned with the needs
of running a node - perhaps budget hardware, but still modern - and
above-average bandwidth caps.

You're free to disagree, but your example only makes sense to me if
blocksize caps didn't have serious consequences.  Even if those
consequences are just the threat of a contentious fork by people who are
mislead about the real consequences, that threat is still a consequence
itself.

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 9:18 AM, David Vorick via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Perhaps you are fortunate to have a home computer that has more than a
> single 512GB SSD. Lots of consumer hardware has that little storage. Throw
> on top of it standard consumer usage, and you're often left with less than
> 200 GB of free space. Bitcoin consumes more than half of that, which feels
> very expensive, especially if it motivates you to buy another drive.
>
> I have talked to several people who cite this as the primary reason that
> they are reluctant to join the full node club.
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Perhaps you are=
 fortunate to have a home computer that has more than a single 512GB SSD. L=
ots of consumer hardware has that little storage.</span><br><br><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px">That&#39;s very poor logic, sorry.=C2=A0 Restricted-s=
pace SSD&#39;s are not a cost-effective hardware option for running a node.=
=C2=A0 Keeping blocksizes small has significant=C2=A0other costs for everyo=
ne.=C2=A0 Comparing the cost of running a node under arbitrary conditons A,=
 B, or C when there are far more efficient options than any of those is a v=
ery bad way to think about the costs of running a node.=C2=A0 You basically=
 have to ignore the significant consequences of keeping blocks small.<br><b=
r>If node operational costs rose to the point where an entire wide swath of=
 users that we do actually need for security purposes could not justify run=
ning a node, that&#39;s something important for consideration.=C2=A0 For me=
, that translates to modern hardware that&#39;s relatively well aligned wit=
h the needs of running a node - perhaps budget hardware, but still modern -=
 and above-average bandwidth caps.</span><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8=
px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">You&#39;re free =
to disagree, but your example only makes sense to me if blocksize caps didn=
&#39;t have serious consequences.=C2=A0 Even if those consequences are just=
 the threat of a contentious fork by people who are mislead about the real =
consequences, that threat is still a consequence itself.</span></div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 29, 2=
017 at 9:18 AM, David Vorick via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin=
-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Perhaps you=
 are fortunate to have a home computer that has more than a single 512GB SS=
D. Lots of consumer hardware has that little storage. Throw on top of it st=
andard consumer usage, and you&#39;re often left with less than 200 GB of f=
ree space. Bitcoin consumes more than half of that, which feels very expens=
ive, especially if it motivates you to buy another drive.</div></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=
=3D"auto">I have talked to several people who cite this as the primary reas=
on that they are reluctant to join the full node club.</div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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