Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WOAiw-0001j2-Uc for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:22 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.219.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.219.54; envelope-from=bendavenport@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa0-f54.google.com; Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.219.54]) by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WOAit-0004Z5-LL for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:22 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n16so1503354oag.41 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.132.142 with SMTP id ou14mr2770088oeb.48.1394736674323; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.35.102 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <52852C2D.9020103@gmail.com> <52853D8A.6010501@monetize.io> <20140313160850.GW3180@nl.grid.coop> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: Ben Davenport To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (bendavenport[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WOAit-0004Z5-LL Cc: Bitcoin Dev , Wendell Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:23 -0000 --047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psychological value of a low-valued large-balance currency. (From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.msg2334059#msg2334059) "The whole unit change seems so disruptive and difficult to coordinate now -- do we really want to have to deal with another one later when there are way more people to try to coordinate? I really think we should look to the endgame and figure out where we want to be. "I'd propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin = 1e-6) as the standard unit now and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB or uBTC, but over time, once it's ubiquitous, it should just be called a bitcoin. Because the smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-denominated prices would get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most that any consumer wants to deal with anyway. "At the same time, I'd propose inverting the exchange rate, so instead of quoting uB/USD = .00013, it would be quoted as USD/uB = 7692. This is exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to USD (USDJPY = 100.66), and is also the same way other private virtual currencies such as WoW gold are quoted." On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, >> which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon. >> > > + > > We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to >> make the decision. >> > > Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price? > > >> This sounds very US-centric to me. Aren't you thinking in usd? >> > > The currencies I'm familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR and GBP, which all have > roughly similar values. I guess such currencies make up the bulk of the > Bitcoin userbase at the moment. > > >> "People seem to like mBTC" is just an ad populum fallacy: millions of >> flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven't showed them micros, >> maybe they like it too. > > > Saying "it's already popular and would take work to change" is not really > a fallacy now, is it? > > But anyway, this is getting silly. You don't have to convince me. Go visit > all the services I listed above, plus all the ones I didn't find in my five > minutes of searching, and convince them they're wrong like the flies and > switching is the best use of their time :o > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear = in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psycho= logical value of a low-valued large-balance currency.


"The whole unit change seems so disruptive and dif= ficult to coordinate now -- do we really want to have to deal with another = one later when there are way more people to try to coordinate? I really thi= nk we should look to the endgame and figure out where we want to be.

"I'd propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin =3D 1e-6) = as the standard unit now and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB = or uBTC, but over time, once it's ubiquitous, it should just be called = a bitcoin. Because the smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-d= enominated prices would get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most tha= t any consumer wants to deal with anyway.

"At the same time, I'd propose inverting the e= xchange rate, so instead of quoting uB/USD =3D .00013, it would be quoted a= s USD/uB =3D 7692. This is exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to = USD (USDJPY =3D 100.66), and is also the same way other private virtual cur= rencies such as WoW gold are quoted."





On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 A= M, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
=
You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, = which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon.

+

We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoi= n to make the decision.

Hmmm ;)= Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price?
=A0
This sounds very US-centr= ic to me. Aren't you thinking in usd?

The currencies I'm familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR= and GBP, which all have roughly similar values. I guess such currencies ma= ke up the bulk of the Bitcoin userbase at the moment.
=A0
"People seem to like mBTC" is just an ad populum fallacy: million= s of
flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven't showed them micros,
maybe they like it too.

Saying "= it's already popular and would take work to change" is not really = a fallacy now, is it?

But anyway, this is getting = silly. You don't have to convince me. Go visit all the services I liste= d above, plus all the ones I didn't find in my five minutes of searchin= g, and convince them they're wrong like the flies and switching is the = best use of their time :o=A0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases = and their
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
http://p.sf= .net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
_____________________________________________= __
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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