Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E382B1264 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 08:56:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-oi0-f49.google.com (mail-oi0-f49.google.com [209.85.218.49]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7032132 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 08:56:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by oibi136 with SMTP id i136so1813495oib.3 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 01:56:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=nmadEBF33QmIkzUBa02vflnufPg7UfILUGnNTr4FZp4=; b=fdopEcatmfcjNT/I1kg9OaRuglyxjsLeRP2xtfNLempBkFWRPhmoxKuUBw0mArtoHV LXDeUV4DJIXG6zjfy6f30utea8AsYc2O77+67x8yj662kO5MhPn2DK6gtQaqn28W+XnL JNR7CXTePSOXUgNbGqw87s+RJ/BjrA/189kn/cG3QQkqamF3YPxI/Lw2Au+TEjHFRbBr pe9sv6i0IXjhvt1F0kli8SecIBwOHcwdaWf3vA8QVg8Han19iUxUPnE1Gasd2IZvMxd8 ldlOnLACf172NI8P0bbnyX+lfMR0waiaqgHrA+o21YWXssZocqC61u4GQ9mTQZZ8XBn4 uhWA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.107.212 with SMTP id g203mr11644114oic.36.1441184191006; Wed, 02 Sep 2015 01:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.77.199 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:56:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 01:56:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Warren Togami Jr." To: Bitcoin Dev Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11407438c2d067051ebfd71a X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Open Block Chain Licence, BIP[xxxx] Draft X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:56:33 -0000 --001a11407438c2d067051ebfd71a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am skeptical that any license for the blockchain itself is needed because of the possibility that the blockchain is not entitled to copyright protection. While I am not a lawyer, I have stared hard at the copyright doctrine of the U.S. in multiple law school Intellectual Property courses and during my previous career in Open Source Software where copyright matters a great deal. As each owner of a > coin makes a transfer by digitally signing a hash of the previous > transaction along with the > new owner=E2=80=99s public key, the block chain is a perpetual compilatio= n of > unique data. > *It is therefore compiled in a creative and non-obvious way.* In the USA, > for example, these > attributes confer legal protections for databases which have been ruled > upon by the courts. This portion of your paper I believe is not true and requires citations if you want to be convincing. Is it truly "creative and non-obvious"? My understanding under at least U.S. law, the blockchain may not be entitled to copyright protection because a compilation created in a mechanical manner is not a creative work of a human. I suppose a transaction could contain a "creative" element if it contains arbitrary bytes of a message or clever script. For the most part though most of what you call "digitally signing a hash of the previous transaction along with the new owner=E2=80=99s public key" is purely the result of a me= chanical process and really is not creative. Furthermore, even if that output were "non-obvious", obviousness has nothing to do with copyrightability. Your license is correct in intent in attempting to exclude from the royalty free grant works within the blockchain that themselves may be subject to copyright of third parties. The elements within the blockchain may be entitled individually to copyright if they are in any way a creative work of a human, but as a compilation I am doubtful the blockchain itself is entitled to copyright. I understand copyright with respect to databases can be different under other jurisdictions. Your paper mentions the European database law that is indeed different from the U.S. Your paper is incomplete in scholarly and legal citations. I myself and we as a community don't know enough. I suppose this topic merits further study. Warren Togami On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Ahmed Zsales via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hello, > > We believe the network requires a block chain licence to supplement the > existing MIT Licence which we believe only covers the core reference clie= nt > software. > > Replacing or amending the existing MIT Licence is beyond the scope of thi= s > draft BIP. > > Rationale and details of our draft BIP for discussion and evaluation are > here: > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwEbhrQ4ELzBMVFxajNZa2hzMTg/view?usp=3Ds= haring > > Regards, > > Ahmed > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > --001a11407438c2d067051ebfd71a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am skeptical that any license for the blockchain it= self is needed because of the possibility that the blockchain is not entitl= ed to copyright protection.=C2=A0 While I am not a lawyer, I have stared ha= rd at the copyright doctrine of the U.S. in multiple law school Intellectua= l Property courses and during my previous career in Open Source Software wh= ere copyright matters a great deal.

As each owner of a
coin makes a transfer by digitally signing a hash = of the previous transaction along with the=C2=A0
new owner=E2=80=99s pub= lic key, the block chain is a perpetual compilation of unique data. It is=C2=A0
therefore compiled in a creative and = non-obvious way. In the USA, for example, these=C2=A0
att= ributes confer legal protections for databases which have been ruled upon b= y the courts.

This portion of your pa= per I believe is not true and requires citations if you want to be convinci= ng.=C2=A0 Is it truly "creative and non-obvious"?=C2=A0 My unders= tanding under at least U.S. law, the blockchain may not be entitled to copy= right protection because a compilation created in a mechanical manner is no= t a creative work of a human.

I suppose a transact= ion could contain a "creative" element if it contains arbitrary b= ytes of a message or clever script.=C2=A0 For the most part though most of = what you call "digitally signing a hash of the previous transaction al= ong with the new owner=E2=80=99s public key" is purely the result of a= mechanical process and really is not creative.=C2=A0 Furthermore, even if = that output were "non-obvious", obviousness has nothing to do wit= h copyrightability.

Your license is correct in int= ent in attempting to exclude from the royalty free grant works within the b= lockchain that themselves may be subject to copyright of third parties.=C2= =A0 The elements within the blockchain may be entitled individually to copy= right if they are in any way a creative work of a human, but as a compilati= on I am doubtful the blockchain itself is entitled to copyright.
<= div>

I understand copyright with respect to databas= es can be different under other jurisdictions.=C2=A0 Your paper mentions th= e European database law that is indeed different from the U.S.=C2=A0 Your p= aper is incomplete in scholarly and legal citations.=C2=A0 I myself and we = as a community don't know enough.=C2=A0 I suppose this topic merits fur= ther study.

Warren Togami

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6= :30 AM, Ahmed Zsales via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@list= s.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
Hello,

We believe the network requires a block cha= in licence to supplement the existing MIT Licence which we believe only cov= ers the core reference client software.

Replacing = or amending the existing MIT Licence is beyond the scope of this draft BIP.=

Rationale and details of our draft BIP for discus= sion and evaluation are here:


Regards,
Ahmed

_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
= bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


--001a11407438c2d067051ebfd71a--