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From: Christopher Allen <ChristopherA@lifewithalacrity.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:19:07 -0700
Message-ID: <CACrqygDR4sGX8oY=BT9K_RSYCjsG0P-YBpi-sY5cuM8LBvsQtQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ali Sherief <ali@notatether.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dc362d05e7654e1f"
Cc: Nicholas Ochiel <nochiel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Wallet Labels Export Format
Precedence: list

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On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 9:12 AM Ali Sherief via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> I am aware that business processes are mostly CSV file oriented


I disagree that business processes are mostly CSV.  Amateur processes
maybe, but professional accounting, no. Trying to do my business accounting
with CSV files from various exchanges is PITA.


> so you can make a statement akin to BIP174 in the Goal 2 BIP, that expects
> the medium of exchange to be in files ending in .csv. I wouldn't mind if
> you require .csv file extension in a BIP for Goal 2. But such a statement
> is not appropriate in the Goal 1 BIP which is only concerned with the
> wallet label format itself.


I too would like to see some separation of layers here, as there are other
possible output formats. Maybe expanding on another use case for this data
would help.

I've been working with @nochiel <https://github.com/nochiel> on export
to a Plain-Text
Accounting <https://plaintextaccounting.org> friendly format,
initially the beancount
python app <https://github.com/beancount/beancount/>: (our prototype is
current at /beancounter.py but it is being refactored into new repo).

Basically what the final tool will do is: given a descriptor, get any
transactions for that descriptor from a random explora via Tor (initially
ours and Blockstream's), and then get price information from a random
Spotbit price server via Tor (initially just ours, but seeking more hosts),
and export a beancount compatible file.

```

python app.py beancount
"wpkh(tpubD9hudZxy8Uj3453QrsEbr8KiyXTYC5ExHjJ5sNDVW7yKJ8wc7acKQcpdbvZX6dFerHK6MfVvs78VvGfotjN28yC4ij6nr4uSVhX2qorUV8V/0/*)"
Outputs: spotbit.beancount

2008-10-31 commodity BTC
  name: "Bitcoin"
  asset-class: "cryptocurrency"

2018-04-02 open Assets:BTC BTC
2018-04-02 open Liabilities:Cash:USDT USDT

2018-04-02 * "tb1qcrekknrspx28t9vl53ltsag5gqgqdj066ydf75" "Transaction
hash: 2a2f7f24761fa54cb6e559efea5678415d9cbbabc42e6a4e2ce463ee3c446230"
Assets:BTC 1.00000000 BTC { 6935.16 USDT }
Liabilities:Cash:USDT - 6935.16 USDT

2018-04-02 * "tb1q45whzx3emntntnpzjdx3gzj6z5cgxakkg7s3sa" "Transaction
hash: 387123efcaa707759a4af8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba42637852dde89"
Assets:BTC - 0.36300616 BTC @  6935.16 USDT
Liabilities:Cash:USDT 2517.51 USDT

2018-04-02 * "tb1qgv5484m83e2mzz3n8tf4snvnwj5qgqgampnhvv" "Transaction
hash: 387123efcaa707759a4af8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba42637852dde89"
Assets:BTC - 0.63699243 BTC @  6935.16 USDT
Liabilities:Cash:USDT 4417.64 USDT

2018-04-02 * "tb1q45whzx3emntntnpzjdx3gzj6z5cgxakkg7s3sa" "Transaction
hash: 387123efcaa707759a4af8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba42637852dde89"
Assets:BTC 0.36300616 BTC { 6935.16 USDT }
Liabilities:Cash:USDT - 2517.51 USDT
```

I can then use the beancount cli app (or it's fava webapp) to easily add
other details to this file to do my bitcoin accounting (and any other
accounting I need). In particular, as beancount support lots, it solves a
problem for me with US taxes which is unrealized capital gain (I get 1 BTC
from donor at $20K, the price goes up to $30K and I pay it to an engineer,
my BTC balance is 0 but my unrealized capital gain for US tax purposes  is
$10K).

More ideally, if there were additional details that I could merge in from
my wallet export, such as payer and payee, notes, etc. it would make my
accounting much easier.

Thus I'd like to see an easier and interoperable way to merge these details
(my account details from an Esplora and price details from Spotbit), with
what my different wallets may (or may not) have available.

I hope that this might inspire some ideas from the people working on this
wallet export format.

-- Christopher Allen

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 9:12 AM Ali Sheri=
ef via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.=
org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I am aware that business processes are =
mostly CSV file oriented</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I disagree that bu=
siness processes are mostly CSV.=C2=A0 Amateur processes maybe, but profess=
ional accounting, no. Trying to do my business accounting with CSV files fr=
om various exchanges is PITA.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-l=
eft-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">so you=
 can make a statement akin to BIP174 in the Goal 2 BIP, that expects the me=
dium of exchange to be in files ending in .csv. I wouldn&#39;t mind if you =
require .csv file extension in a BIP for Goal 2. But such a statement is no=
t appropriate in the Goal 1 BIP which is only concerned with the wallet lab=
el format itself.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I too would like to see s=
ome separation of layers here, as there are other possible output formats. =
Maybe expanding on another use case for this data would help.</div><div><br=
></div><div>I&#39;ve been working with=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/n=
ochiel">@nochiel</a>=C2=A0on export to a <a href=3D"https://plaintextaccoun=
ting.org">Plain-Text Accounting</a> friendly format, initially the <a href=
=3D"https://github.com/beancount/beancount/ ">beancount python=C2=A0app</a>=
: (our prototype is current at=C2=A0<a href=3D"http:///beancounter.py">/bea=
ncounter.py</a> but it is being refactored into new repo).</div><div><br></=
div><div>Basically what the final tool will do is: given a descriptor, get =
any transactions for that descriptor from a random explora via Tor (initial=
ly ours and Blockstream&#39;s), and then get price information from a rando=
m Spotbit price server via Tor (initially just ours, but seeking more hosts=
), and export a beancount compatible file.</div><div><br></div><div><font f=
ace=3D"monospace">```</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace"><span id=3D=
"gmail-docs-internal-guid-09e35ecc-7fff-4e65-0c46-2d6d7acdfb59" style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)"><p dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;mar=
gin-bottom:0pt">python app.py beancount &quot;wpkh(tpubD9hudZxy8Uj3453QrsEb=
r8KiyXTYC5ExHjJ5sNDVW7yKJ8wc7acKQcpdbvZX6dFerHK6MfVvs78VvGfotjN28yC4ij6nr4u=
SVhX2qorUV8V/0/*)&quot;<br>Outputs: spotbit.beancount<br><br>2008-10-31 com=
modity BTC<br>=C2=A0 name: &quot;Bitcoin&quot;<br>=C2=A0 asset-class: &quot=
;cryptocurrency&quot;<br><br>2018-04-02 open Assets:BTC	BTC<br>2018-04-02 o=
pen Liabilities:Cash:USDT	USDT<br><br>2018-04-02 * &quot;tb1qcrekknrspx28t9=
vl53ltsag5gqgqdj066ydf75&quot; &quot;Transaction hash: 2a2f7f24761fa54cb6e5=
59efea5678415d9cbbabc42e6a4e2ce463ee3c446230&quot;<br>	Assets:BTC	 1.000000=
00 BTC { 6935.16 USDT }<br>	Liabilities:Cash:USDT	- 6935.16 USDT	<br><br>20=
18-04-02 * &quot;tb1q45whzx3emntntnpzjdx3gzj6z5cgxakkg7s3sa&quot; &quot;Tra=
nsaction hash: 387123efcaa707759a4af8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba42637852d=
de89&quot;<br>	Assets:BTC	- 0.36300616 BTC @ =C2=A06935.16 USDT	<br>	Liabil=
ities:Cash:USDT	 2517.51 USDT	<br><br>2018-04-02 * &quot;tb1qgv5484m83e2mzz=
3n8tf4snvnwj5qgqgampnhvv&quot; &quot;Transaction hash: 387123efcaa707759a4a=
f8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba42637852dde89&quot;<br>	Assets:BTC	- 0.63699=
243 BTC @ =C2=A06935.16 USDT	<br>	Liabilities:Cash:USDT	 4417.64 USDT	<br><=
br>2018-04-02 * &quot;tb1q45whzx3emntntnpzjdx3gzj6z5cgxakkg7s3sa&quot; &quo=
t;Transaction hash: 387123efcaa707759a4af8159cb1309fae86b793d26b5fd8bba4263=
7852dde89&quot;<br>	Assets:BTC	 0.36300616 BTC { 6935.16 USDT }<br>	Liabili=
ties:Cash:USDT	- 2517.51 USDT=C2=A0<br></p></span><font color=3D"#000000"><=
span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">```</span></font></font></div><di=
v><br></div><div>I can then use the beancount cli app (or it&#39;s fava web=
app) to easily add other details to this file to do my bitcoin accounting (=
and any other accounting I need). In particular, as beancount support lots,=
 it solves a problem for me with US taxes which is unrealized capital gain =
(I get 1 BTC from donor at $20K, the price goes up to $30K and I pay it to =
an engineer, my BTC balance is 0 but my unrealized capital gain for US tax =
purposes =C2=A0is $10K).</div><div><br></div><div>More ideally, if there we=
re additional details that I could merge in from my wallet export, such as =
payer and payee, notes, etc. it would make my accounting much easier.=C2=A0=
</div><div><br></div><div>Thus I&#39;d like to see an easier and interopera=
ble way to merge these details (my account details from an Esplora and pric=
e details from Spotbit), with what my different wallets may (or may not) ha=
ve available.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope that this might inspire some =
ideas from the people working on this wallet export format.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>-- Christopher Allen</div><div><br></div></div></div>

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