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Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 02:15:16 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+BnGuEidsn9=f1oUoN8iUL9g9Zu1zigwjOj8BvazaSxMFwUGA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Elliot Olds <elliot.olds@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0116178e81f1f5051e6fa365
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Consensus based block size retargeting algorithm
	(draft)
Precedence: list

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On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Chris Pacia via bitcoin-dev
> > It may be in everyone's collective interest to raise the block size but
> not
> > their individual interest.
>
> It is clear from recent events that miners are willing to collaborate
> together for the greater good of their industry. Miners have also
> publicly shown support for raising the blocksize collaboratively.
>

When have miners shown a willingness to make sacrifices for miners as a
whole when they've been in a "public good"[1] situation? Miners
collaborating to release statements to the public about which BIPs they
support is very different from miners incurring costs only to themselves in
order to help the entire group. They might do so, but it isn't clear.

I agree with Jorge and Mark that allowing miners to vote on the block size
is not ideal. Miners interests are somewhat aligned with those of the
broader community, but not perfectly aligned. The block size level that
maximizes miner revenue is not necessarily desirable overall. More miner
revenue is only good if the marginal extra security that it buys is worth
the extra cost. In addition to the cost of higher user fees, there's
another hidden cost. In Bitcoin's early stages trying to maximize revenue
too soon can slow growth and result in less revenue when it's more needed
(when block rewards are much lower).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Aug 28, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:=
1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><span class=3D"">On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Chris Pacia via bi=
tcoin-dev<br>
&gt; It may be in everyone&#39;s collective interest to raise the block siz=
e but not<br>
&gt; their individual interest.<br>
<br>
</span>It is clear from recent events that miners are willing to collaborat=
e<br>
together for the greater good of their industry. Miners have also<br>
publicly shown support for raising the blocksize collaboratively.<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>When have miners shown a willingness to make sac=
rifices for miners as a whole when they&#39;ve been in a &quot;public good&=
quot;[1] situation? Miners collaborating to release statements to the publi=
c about which BIPs they support is very different from miners incurring cos=
ts only to themselves in order to help the entire group. They might do so, =
but it isn&#39;t clear.</div><div><br></div><div>I agree with Jorge and Mar=
k that allowing miners to vote on the block size is not ideal. Miners inter=
ests are somewhat aligned with those of the broader community, but not perf=
ectly aligned. The block size level that maximizes miner revenue is not nec=
essarily desirable overall. More miner revenue is only good if the marginal=
 extra security that it buys is worth the extra cost. In addition to the co=
st of higher user fees, there&#39;s another hidden cost. In Bitcoin&#39;s e=
arly stages trying to maximize revenue too soon can slow growth and result =
in less revenue when it&#39;s more needed (when block rewards are much lowe=
r).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>[1]=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia=
.org/wiki/Public_good">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good</a></div><=
/div></div></div>

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