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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:09:18 +0200
Message-ID: <CAKaEYh+FyDmN0aXNJY18yhiwRPtSVGiZiO+cMS1fRs1VnyTc2A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c36bc6c6e61f0518ceb4af
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer
 to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers
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On 18 June 2015 at 12:00, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:

> Dude, calm down. I don't have commit access to Bitcoin Core and Gavin
> already said long ago he wouldn't just commit something, even though he has
> the ability to do so.
>
> So why did I say it? Because it's consistent with what I've always said:
>  you cannot run a codebase like Wikipedia. Maintainers have to take part in
> debates, and then make a decision, and anyone else who was delegated commit
> access for robustness or convenience must then respect that decision. It's
> the only way to keep a project making progress at a reasonable pace.
>
> This is not a radical position. That's how nearly all coding projects
> work. I have been involved with open source for 15 years and the 'single
> maintainer who makes decisions' model is normal, even if in some large
> codebases  subsystems have delegated submaintainers.
>
> This is also how all my own projects are run. Bitcoinj has multiple people
> with commit access. Regardless, if there were to be some design dispute or
> whatever, I wouldn't tolerate the others with commit access starting some
> kind of Wiki-style edit war in the code if they disagreed. Nor would I ever
> expect to get my own way in other people's projects by threatening to
> revert the maintainers changes.
>
> Core is in the weird position where there's no decision making ability at
> all, because anyone who shows up and shouts enough can generate
> 'controversy', then Wladimir sees there is disagreement and won't touch the
> issue in question. So it just runs and runs and *anyone* with commit
> access can then block any change.
>
> I realise some people think this anti-process leads to better decision
> making. I disagree. It leads to no decision making, which is not the same
> thing at all.
>

Bicoin is not like other projects.  There are large financial stakes
involved.  I was at a standards convention once and the head of standards
at a large company joked to me:

"We know there are 6 people in the standards world that we can never buy.
So we just buy everyone else".

You have to luck out in a huge way to get a person like that running your
project.  Linux has done.  Id say bitcoin has been lucky there too.  But
have a look at other projects, have a look at the alts, the *last* thing
you want is a dictator in may cases.

Ultimately bitcoin is a ledger based on consensus.  There are 3 branches,
the miners, the protocol and the market.  They all play a role in
regulating bitcoin and generally on the conservative side (which I think is
a good thing).  Whatever your view on the 20MB change, it's not a
*conservative* approach, which is the approach that has served bitcoin very
well so far.

So bitcoin is not like other open source projects, and that's probably
quite a good thing.


>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On 18 June 2015 at 12:00, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dude, calm down. I d=
on&#39;t have commit access to Bitcoin Core and Gavin already said long ago=
 he wouldn&#39;t just commit something, even though he has the ability to d=
o so.<div><br></div><div>So why did I say it? Because it&#39;s consistent w=
ith what I&#39;ve always said: =C2=A0you cannot run a codebase like Wikiped=
ia. Maintainers have to take part in debates, and then make a decision, and=
 anyone else who was delegated commit access for robustness or convenience =
must then respect that decision. It&#39;s the only way to keep a project ma=
king progress at a reasonable pace.</div><div><br></div><div>This is not a =
radical position. That&#39;s how nearly all coding projects work. I have be=
en involved with open source for 15 years and the &#39;single maintainer wh=
o makes decisions&#39; model is normal, even if in some large codebases =C2=
=A0subsystems have delegated submaintainers.</div><div><br></div><div>This =
is also how all my own projects are run. Bitcoinj has multiple people with =
commit access. Regardless, if there were to be some design dispute or whate=
ver, I wouldn&#39;t tolerate the others with commit access starting some ki=
nd of Wiki-style edit war in the code if they disagreed. Nor would I ever e=
xpect to get my own way in other people&#39;s projects by threatening to re=
vert the maintainers changes.</div><div><br></div><div>Core is in the weird=
 position where there&#39;s no decision making ability at all, because anyo=
ne who shows up and shouts enough can generate &#39;controversy&#39;, then =
Wladimir sees there is disagreement and won&#39;t touch the issue in questi=
on. So it just runs and runs and <i>anyone</i>=C2=A0with commit access can =
then block any change.</div><div><br></div><div>I realise some people think=
 this anti-process leads to better decision making. I disagree. It leads to=
 no decision making, which is not the same thing at all.</div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>Bicoin is not like other projects.=C2=A0 There ar=
e large financial stakes involved.=C2=A0 I was at a standards convention on=
ce and the head of standards at a large company joked to me:<br><br>&quot;W=
e know there are 6 people in the standards world that we can never buy.=C2=
=A0 So we just buy everyone else&quot;.<br><br></div><div>You have to luck =
out in a huge way to get a person like that running your project.=C2=A0 Lin=
ux has done.=C2=A0 Id say bitcoin has been lucky there too.=C2=A0 But have =
a look at other projects, have a look at the alts, the *last* thing you wan=
t is a dictator in may cases.<br><br></div><div>Ultimately bitcoin is a led=
ger based on consensus.=C2=A0 There are 3 branches, the miners, the protoco=
l and the market.=C2=A0 They all play a role in regulating bitcoin and gene=
rally on the conservative side (which I think is a good thing).=C2=A0 Whate=
ver your view on the 20MB change, it&#39;s not a *conservative* approach, w=
hich is the approach that has served bitcoin very well so far.=C2=A0 <br><b=
r></div><div>So bitcoin is not like other open source projects, and that&#3=
9;s probably quite a good thing.<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/=
listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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