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[2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-3037c8f031fsi263010a91.0.2025.03.27.03.47.04 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of stewart.chris1234@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134; Received: by mail-yw1-x1134.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6efe4e3d698so7962157b3.0 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:47:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctKAo05OZuolvJ2rZtXayHr6AotUGu9NW878M1OkYZRs+kx8MroCL4Os9XEBLJ 2cr2kLQMV+mmcdRSn/aOKiiPfOCdm5Q0gNbbqPeJH1xhY2F0R2k1hyTYDTG6/E6g/LfJmCpesAD y351FZG3E9S+EiNPJuws32DqkimA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:640e:b0:6fb:1c5a:80f8 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70224fcb6ecmr44526057b3.15.1743072423870; Thu, 27 Mar 2025 03:47:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Chris Stewart Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 05:46:52 -0500 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JpSSb1IeHRwvcXK170yQdNGXI13E6rXmtv3j_iH3SKTG9FDGGLrX4hqdRo Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Consensus Cleanup BIP draft To: Antoine Poinsot Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a488c4063150acd7" X-Original-Sender: stewart.chris1234@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=DR8i2H0E; spf=pass (google.com: domain of stewart.chris1234@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=stewart.chris1234@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com; dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --000000000000a488c4063150acd7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Antoine, First off, concept ACK. My concerns are procedural rather than objections to the individual security fixes themselves. The "Great Consensus Cleanup" is a fantastic brand for communicating these protocol changes to non-technical users. However, since this is a technical forum and we are producing BIPs intended for technical audiences, I believe we should document these changes in separate BIPs. The proposed security fixes are largely unrelated from a technical standpoint: 1. Timewarp attack mitigation 2. Worst-case block validation constraints 3. Disallowing 64-byte transactions 4. Avoiding duplicate transactions We should absolutely retain the "Great Consensus Cleanup" branding while independently documenting each security enhancement. A common concern I=E2=80=99ve heard about splitting this BIP is that deploy= ing soft forks is difficult, so all changes should be bundled together. While soft fork deployment is indeed challenging, we've successfully activated multiple BIPs within a single soft fork in the past=E2=80=94e.g., BIP141 an= d BIP143 in Segwit, as well as BIP341, BIP342, and BIP343 in Taproot. If the community reaches consensus, we can still deploy all these changes together, even if they are documented separately. This approach also provides flexibility: if one of the proposed changes turns out to be controversial, we could remove it without holding up the rest of the improvements. Additionally, once these fixes are deployed, there will likely be significant research and documentation to incorporate, and maintaining independent BIPs will make it easier to manage that growth. I do see merit in implementing all the security fixes in a single PR for Bitcoin Core. More active contributors to the project may have stronger opinions on the best approach there. -Chris ------------------------------ On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:23=E2=80=AFPM 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Devel= opment Mailing List wrote: > Hi everyone, > > About two months ago i shared an update on this list about my (and > others', really) work on the > Consensus Cleanup [0]. I am now ready to share a BIP draft for a Consensu= s > Cleanup soft fork. > > The BIP draft can be found here: > https://github.com/darosior/bips/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md > > It includes the following fixes: > - a restriction on the timestamp of the first and last blocks of a > difficulty adjustment period to > address the Timewarp and Murch-Zawy attacks; > - a limit on the number of legacy signature operations that may be > executed in validating a single > transaction to address long block validation times; > - making 64 bytes transactions invalid to address weaknesses in the block > Merkle tree construction; > - mandating coinbase transactions be timelocked to their block height to > prevent future transaction > duplication without resorting to BIP30 validation. > > This BIP draws on the 2019 Great Consensus Cleanup proposal from Matt > Corallo [1]. A number of > people contributed ideas, testing, data or useful discussions. This > includes Ava Chow, Matt Corallo, > Mark Erhardt, Brian Groll, David A. Harding, Sjors Provoost, Anthony > Towns, Greg Sanders, Chris > Stewart, Eric Voskuil, @0xb10c and others. > > Antoine Poinsot > > [0] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/jiyMlvTX8BnG71f75SqChQZxyhZDQ65kldcugeID= JVJsvK4hadCO3GT46xFc7_cUlWdmOCG0B_WIz0HAO5ZugqYTuX5qxnNLRBn3MopuATI=3D@prot= onmail.com > [1] > https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/7f9670b643b7c943a0cc6d2197d3eabe= 661050c2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/uDAujRxk4oWnEGYX9lBD3e0V7a4V= 4Pd-c4-2QVybSZNcfJj5a6IbO6fCM_xEQEpBvQeOT8eIi1r91iKFIveeLIxfNMzDys77HUcbl7Z= ne4g%3D%40protonmail.com > . > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/= CAGL6%2BmFQqTS21cQZ_aU%3DhXtMaKkw5ygAk2PT9hQpdB4THz9X_A%40mail.gmail.com. --000000000000a488c4063150acd7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi= Antoine,

First off, concept ACK. My concerns are procedural rather than objection= s to the individual security fixes themselves.

The "Great Consensus Cleanup" is a fantastic brand for communi= cating these protocol changes to non-technical users. However, since this i= s a technical forum and we are producing BIPs intended for technical audien= ces, I believe we should document these changes in separate BIPs.

The proposed security fixes are largely unrelated from a technical stand= point:

  1. Timewarp attack mitigation

  2. Worst-case block validation constraints

  3. Disallowing 64-byte transactions

  4. Avoiding duplicate transactions

We should absolutely retain the "Great Consensus Cleanup" bran= ding while independently documenting each security enhancement.

A common concern I=E2=80=99ve heard about splitting this BIP is that dep= loying soft forks is difficult, so all changes should be bundled together. = While soft fork deployment is indeed challenging, we've successfully ac= tivated multiple BIPs within a single soft fork in the past=E2=80=94e.g., B= IP141 and BIP143 in Segwit, as well as BIP341, BIP342, and BIP343 in Taproo= t. If the community reaches consensus, we can still deploy all these change= s together, even if they are documented separately.

This approach also provides flexibility: if one of the proposed changes = turns out to be controversial, we could remove it without holding up the re= st of the improvements. Additionally, once these fixes are deployed, there = will likely be significant research and documentation to incorporate, and m= aintaining independent BIPs will make it easier to manage that growth.

I do see merit in implementing all the security fixes in a single PR for= Bitcoin Core. More active contributors to the project may have stronger op= inions on the best approach there.

-Chris





On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:23=E2= =80=AFPM 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <= ;bitcoinde= v@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,
About two months ago i shared an update on this list about my (and others&#= 39;, really) work on the
Consensus Cleanup [0]. I am now ready to share a BIP draft for a Consensus = Cleanup soft fork.

The BIP draft can be found here: ht= tps://github.com/darosior/bips/blob/consensus_cleanup/bip-cc.md

It includes the following fixes:
- a restriction on the timestamp of the first and last blocks of a difficul= ty adjustment period to
=C2=A0 address the Timewarp and Murch-Zawy attacks;
- a limit on the number of legacy signature operations that may be executed= in validating a single
=C2=A0 transaction to address long block validation times;
- making 64 bytes transactions invalid to address weaknesses in the block M= erkle tree construction;
- mandating coinbase transactions be timelocked to their block height to pr= event future transaction
=C2=A0 duplication without resorting to BIP30 validation.

This BIP draws on the 2019 Great Consensus Cleanup proposal from Matt Coral= lo [1]. A number of
people contributed ideas, testing, data or useful discussions. This include= s Ava Chow, Matt Corallo,
Mark Erhardt, Brian Groll, David A. Harding, Sjors Provoost, Anthony Towns,= Greg Sanders, Chris
Stewart, Eric Voskuil, @0xb10c and others.

Antoine Poinsot

[0] https://gnush= a.org/pi/bitcoindev/jiyMlvTX8BnG71f75SqChQZxyhZDQ65kldcugeIDJVJsvK4hadCO3GT= 46xFc7_cUlWdmOCG0B_WIz0HAO5ZugqYTuX5qxnNLRBn3MopuATI=3D@protonmail.com<= br> [1] https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bips/blob/7f9670b643b7c943a0cc6d2197d3ea= be661050c2/bip-XXXX.mediawiki

--
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