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From: "'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2025 09:11:04 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMZUoKkU+YnA_HorhGCwQqmLsnPZ8cqf1MJ_U3CE8j1+NgJV4w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Mempool Validation and Relay Policies
 via User-Defined Scripts]
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 8:07=E2=80=AFPM Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsoftwa=
re.net>
wrote:

>
> Mempool policy makes it inconvenient for people to use transactions that
> violate the mempool policy. It may discourage them from building
> protocols that require such transactions. But this discouragement has no
> monetary value, which means that as soon as there is any economic
> interest in producing such transactions, they will be produced and they
> will wind up in blocks. This is what we see -- and it's why we are
> talking about eliminating the data carrier filters and not about
> eliminating, say, the MINIMALIF rule on pre-segwit transactions.


I fully agree that this discouragement has little monetary value.  As we
can see today, folks are bypassing the existing default mempool minfree
rate of 1sat/vbyte and still managing to fill up blocks with these sorts of
sub-1sat/vbyte transactions.  This lets us measure the monetary cost of
bypassing default mempool filters.  The cost is less than the cost savings
that such folks are achieving by their sub-1sat/vbyte transaction.
Eyeballing it, I see that the cost of bypassing default filters is
something less than 0.3sat/vbyte or so.  Probably there was initially some
upfront cost, which is now being amortized.

I'm glad to hear that the default minfree rate is being lowered.  I'd even
support eliminating the minfee entirely and instead relying on the max
mempool size alone.

Also, as Andrew touched on, one valuable role of filters is to try and
filter out third-party malleable transactions to the extent reasonably
possible, or at least filter out their non-canonical / non-min-cost forms.
That is valuable because those sorts of transactions are at great risk of
never appearing in blocks.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 8:07=E2=80=AFPM Andre=
w Poelstra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:apoelstra@wpsoftware.net">apoelstra@wpsoft=
ware.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">
<br>
Mempool policy makes it inconvenient for people to use transactions that<br=
>
violate the mempool policy. It may discourage them from building<br>
protocols that require such transactions. But this discouragement has no<br=
>
monetary value, which means that as soon as there is any economic<br>
interest in producing such transactions, they will be produced and they<br>
will wind up in blocks. This is what we see -- and it&#39;s why we are<br>
talking about eliminating the data carrier filters and not about<br>
eliminating, say, the MINIMALIF rule on pre-segwit transactions.</blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>I fully agree that this discouragement has little mon=
etary value.=C2=A0 As we can see today, folks are bypassing the existing de=
fault mempool minfree rate of 1sat/vbyte and still managing to fill up bloc=
ks with these sorts of sub-1sat/vbyte transactions.=C2=A0 This lets us meas=
ure the monetary cost of bypassing default mempool filters.=C2=A0 The cost =
is less than the cost savings that such folks are achieving by their sub-1s=
at/vbyte transaction.=C2=A0 Eyeballing it, I see that the cost of bypassing=
 default filters is something less than 0.3sat/vbyte or so.=C2=A0 Probably =
there was initially some upfront cost, which is now being amortized.</div><=
div><br></div><div>I&#39;m glad to hear that the default minfree rate is be=
ing lowered.=C2=A0 I&#39;d even support eliminating the minfee entirely and=
 instead relying on the max mempool size alone.<br><br></div><div>Also, as =
Andrew touched on, one valuable role of filters is to try and filter out th=
ird-party malleable transactions to the extent reasonably possible, or at l=
east filter out their non-canonical / non-min-cost forms. That is valuable =
because those sorts of transactions are at great risk of never appearing in=
 blocks.</div><div><br><br></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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