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From: Christopher Gilliard <christopher.gilliard@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 10:12:35 -0700
Message-ID: <CAK=nyAxmNc087YPwxr-3i9J1zm+1+VWMy_u1a=Rcc1spdZBHKw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Zach Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP - limiting OP_RETURN / HF
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Zach,

Thanks for the comments. I just sent out another email to the dev alias
with the other two BIPs that I mentioned last week. It is pending approval
now. I think it will talk about some of the things you mentioned. To avoid
having a lot of comments about those BIPs on this thread, let's use the new
thread for discussing those BIPs.

--Chris

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 1:45 AM Zach Greenwood <zachgrw@gmail.com> wrote:

> [Note: this is my first post to the list]
>
> Businesses storing data on-chain is undesirable but sadly unavoidable.
> Therefore one might as well *facilitate* data storage beyond just OP_RETURN
> by offering a more efficient way to store data on-chain, while still being
> almost as expensive in use per byte of payload (i.e., data) compared to
> using OP_RETURN.
>
> Storing data using OP_RETURN is still inefficient per byte of payload so a
> more efficient dedicated data storing facility might be created that stores
> more payload data per on-chain byte. Such a facility should be (marginally)
> cheaper to use per payload byte compared to using a hack such as OP_RETURN.
> This would encourage the use of this facility in favor of OP_RETURN or
> other hacks, while at the same time dramatically reducing the footprint of
> storing data on-chain.
>
> Zac
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 4:29 AM yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> > If only one hash is allowed per block, then those who wish to utilize
>> > the hash will have to out-bid each other ("fee-bidding"). This hash can
>> > then be used to create another chain ("merged-mining")
>>
>> Merged mining at present only needs one hash for a merkle root, and
>> that's stored in the coinbase. It would be even simpler to add the
>> following rules:
>>
>> 1) No OP_RETURN transactions allowed at all
>> 2) If you want to commit data, do so in that one transaction in the
>> coinbase
>>
>> Also curious about how you'd handle the payment - do I need to put in a
>> transaction that burns bitcoins for the tx fee? That isn't free in terms
>> of storage either.
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Zach,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the comments. I just s=
ent out another email to the dev alias with the other two BIPs that I menti=
oned last week. It is pending approval now. I think it will talk about some=
 of the things you mentioned. To avoid having a lot of comments about those=
 BIPs on this thread, let&#39;s use the new thread for discussing those BIP=
s.</div><div><br></div><div>--Chris</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 1:45 AM Za=
ch Greenwood &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zachgrw@gmail.com">zachgrw@gmail.com</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">[Note: this is my first post to the list]<div><br></div><div>B=
usinesses storing data on-chain is undesirable but sadly unavoidable. There=
fore one might as well *facilitate* data storage beyond just OP_RETURN by o=
ffering a more efficient way to store data on-chain, while still being almo=
st as expensive in use per byte of payload (i.e., data) compared to using O=
P_RETURN.</div><div><br></div><div>Storing data using OP_RETURN is still in=
efficient per byte of payload so a more efficient dedicated data storing fa=
cility might be created that stores more payload data per on-chain byte. Su=
ch a facility should be (marginally) cheaper to use per payload byte compar=
ed to using a hack such as OP_RETURN. This would encourage the use of this =
facility in favor of OP_RETURN or other hacks, while at the same time drama=
tically reducing the footprint of storing data on-chain.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Zac</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 4:29 AM yanmaani--- via bitcoin-dev=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; If only one hash is allowed =
per block, then those who wish to utilize <br>
&gt; the hash will have to out-bid each other (&quot;fee-bidding&quot;). Th=
is hash can <br>
&gt; then be used to create another chain (&quot;merged-mining&quot;)<br>
<br>
Merged mining at present only needs one hash for a merkle root, and <br>
that&#39;s stored in the coinbase. It would be even simpler to add the <br>
following rules:<br>
<br>
1) No OP_RETURN transactions allowed at all<br>
2) If you want to commit data, do so in that one transaction in the <br>
coinbase<br>
<br>
Also curious about how you&#39;d handle the payment - do I need to put in a=
 <br>
transaction that burns bitcoins for the tx fee? That isn&#39;t free in term=
s <br>
of storage either.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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