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[208.79.240.5]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-2cb774898a4si897807a91.1.2024.07.22.09.43.17 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 22 Jul 2024 09:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) client-ip=208.79.240.5; Received: from smtpauth.rollernet.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C2702800861; Mon, 22 Jul 2024 09:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.rollernet.us (webmail.rollernet.us [IPv6:2607:fe70:0:14::a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtpauth.rollernet.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 22 Jul 2024 09:43:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2024 06:43:14 -1000 From: "David A. Harding" To: Peter Todd Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] RBFR makes the CPFP carve-out obsolete with cluster mempool, without upgrading LN nodes; TRUC/V3 does not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0eeb34c87b4cd7c9165983dc3a613550@dtrt.org> X-Sender: dave@dtrt.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed X-Rollernet-Abuse: mailto:abuse@rollernet.us https://www.rollernet.us/policy X-Rollernet-Submit: Submit ID 3ac5.669e8c22.da070.0 X-Original-Sender: dave@dtrt.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave@dtrt.org designates 208.79.240.5 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dave@dtrt.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) On 2024-07-22 01:45, Peter Todd wrote: > TRUC meanwhile isn't even a drop-in solution, and requires everyone to > upgrade before cluster mempool is even possible. The proposed BIP for TRUC[1] is indeed entirely opt-in and would require all users of CPFP-CO (e.g. LN anchors channels) to upgrade their software and switch to a new commitment transactions format, which currently requires closing and reopening all anchors channels. There's work on improving upgrade mechanisms in LN, but it would still be a pain and a major delay to cluster mempool to depend on every LN user upgrading. However, there has also been significant discussion and analysis[2] of an imbued-semantics form of TRUC that could be retroactively applied to LN-style anchor outputs (which are the only users of CPFP-CO we know about). In that case, nobody needs to upgrade before cluster mempool becomes possible. In my previous email, I assumed you were familiar with the imbued semantics proposal; I'm sorry for the miscommunication. -Dave [1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/158acdbbbf8ef13f6b345b6281a96e88e20d2cf9/bip-truc.mediawiki#user-content-Specification [2] https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/analysis-of-attempting-to-imbue-ln-commitment-transaction-spends-with-v3-semantics/527 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/0eeb34c87b4cd7c9165983dc3a613550%40dtrt.org.