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[188.115.185.127]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k18sm51524lfg.47.2016.06.28.14.40.23 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6F871291-EF15-4F60-BBF3-9E6E90AC02A2 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Cameron Garnham <da2ce7@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: <CAAS2fgRGbnH-NtPRdLe0yhFSoqJ7b6O25LfyGv_ULHhy8bBSpg@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 00:40:23 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <B1AF0E38-522E-4EC7-8595-92972D658430@gmail.com> References: <87h9cecad5.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> <1E86A00F-0609-4DBC-9543-94AE04CC13C9@voskuil.org> <577234A4.3030808@jonasschnelli.ch> <360EF9B8-A174-41CA-AFDD-2BC2C0B4DECB@voskuil.org> <20160628182202.GA5519@fedora-21-dvm> <D40F9E9D-DB6C-4083-A9E8-C5EBC363DB30@voskuil.org> <20160628201447.GA1148@fedora-21-dvm> <4DCF7DD2-6533-4F79-8CA1-871B67C01BDA@voskuil.org> <20160628203605.GA1328@fedora-21-dvm> <E8335291-7142-4E21-A1E2-76F387426741@voskuil.org> <CAAS2fgRGbnH-NtPRdLe0yhFSoqJ7b6O25LfyGv_ULHhy8bBSpg@mail.gmail.com> To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:52:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:40:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6F871291-EF15-4F60-BBF3-9E6E90AC02A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unauthenticated link level encryption is wonderful! MITM attacks are overrat= ed; as they require an active attacker. Stopping passive attacks is the low hanging fruit. This should be taken firs= t. Automated and secure peer authentication in a mesh network is a huge topic. O= ne of the unsolved problems in computer science. A simple 'who is that' by asking for the fingerprint of your peers from your= other peers is a very simple way to get 'some' authentication. Semi-truste= d index nodes also is a low hanging fruit for authentication. However, let's first get unauthenticated encryption. Force the attackers to u= se active attacks. (That are thousands times more costly to couduct). Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Jun 2016, at 00:36, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lis= ts.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev > <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: >> An "out of band key check" is not part of BIP151. >=20 > It has a session ID for this purpose. >=20 >> It requires a secure channel and is authentication. So BIP151 doesn't pro= vide the tools to detect an attack, that requires authentication. A general r= equirement for authentication is the issue I have raised. >=20 > One might wonder how you ever use a Bitcoin address, or even why we > might guess these emails from "you" aren't actually coming from the > NSA. > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev --Apple-Mail-6F871291-EF15-4F60-BBF3-9E6E90AC02A2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D= utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(= 255, 255, 255, 0);">Unauthenticated link level encryption is wonderful! MITM= attacks are overrated; as they require an active attacker.</span><div><span= style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><= span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Stopping passive at= tacks is the low hanging fruit. This should be taken first.</span></div><div= ><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div>= <div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Automated and= secure peer authentication in a mesh network is a huge topic. One of the un= solved problems in computer science.</span></div><div><span style=3D"backgro= und-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span><div><div><span style=3D"back= ground-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">A simple 'who is that' by asking= for the fingerprint of your peers from your other peers is a very simple wa= y to get 'some' authentication. Semi-trusted index nodes also is a low= hanging fruit for authentication.</span></div><div><span style=3D"backgroun= d-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><span style=3D"background= -color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">However, let's first get u<font>nauthentica= ted encryption. Force the attackers to use active attacks. (That are thousan= ds times more costly to couduct).</font></span></div></div><br>Sent from my i= Phone</div><div><br>On 29 Jun 2016, at 00:36, Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-de= v <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@l= ists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cit= e"><div><span>On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev<= /span><br><span><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org"= >bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:</span><br><blockquote t= ype=3D"cite"><span>An "out of band key check" is not part of BIP151.</span><= br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>It has a session ID for this purpose.= </span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span>It requires a se= cure channel and is authentication. So BIP151 doesn't provide the tools to d= etect an attack, that requires authentication. A general requirement for aut= hentication is the issue I have raised.</span><br></blockquote><span></span>= <br><span>One might wonder how you ever use a Bitcoin address, or even why w= e</span><br><span>might guess these emails from "you" aren't actually coming= from the</span><br><span>NSA.</span><br><span>_____________________________= __________________</span><br><span>bitcoin-dev mailing list</span><br><span>= <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l= inuxfoundation.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundat= ion.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail= man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-6F871291-EF15-4F60-BBF3-9E6E90AC02A2--