From: Christian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com>
To: Ruben Somsen <rsomsen@gmail.com>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
	Johnson Lau <jl2012@xbt.hk>,
	Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAPv7TjYRVUGWCyFweootbMCJEkyFG4YOJ+M_N_N4j_t043bUfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F8C0789-48E9-448A-A239-DB4AFB902A00@xbt.hk>
	<CAPv7TjYRVUGWCyFweootbMCJEkyFG4YOJ+M_N_N4j_t043bUfw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:09:50 +0100
Message-ID: <87efadp3rl.fsf@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Safer NOINPUT with output tagging
Precedence: list

Ruben Somsen via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
writes:

> Hi Johnson,
>
> The design considerations here seem similar to the ML discussion of
> whether Graftroot should be optional [1].
>
>>While this seems fully compatible with eltoo, is there any other proposals require NOINPUT, and is adversely affected by either way of tagging?
>
> As far as I can tell it should be compatible with Statechains [2],
> since it pretty much mirrors Eltoo in setup.
>
> My understanding is somewhat lacking, so perhaps I am missing the
> mark, but it is not completely clear to me how this affects
> fungibility if taproot gets added and the setup and trigger tx for
> Eltoo get combined into a single transaction. Would the NOINPUT
> spending condition be hidden inside the taproot commitment?

I'm not aware of a way to combine the setup and trigger transaction. The
trigger transaction was introduced in order to delay the start of the
timeouts until a later time, to avoid having an absolute lifetime limit
and having really huge timeout. If we were to combine the trigger
transaction with the setup transaction (which is broadcast during
channel creation), all of those timeouts would start counting down
immediately, and we could just skip the trigger transaction
altogether. It'd be more interesting to combine update and trigger
transactions in a sort of cut-through combination, but that doesn't seem
possible outside of Mimblewimble.

Cheers,
Christian