From: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>
To: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
 <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Thread-Topic: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
Thread-Index: AQHXClsrfqw3JMU0H0Sw+d7oy0zq2KpsMoeAgAFEgSs=
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 11:36:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
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Good Evening,

Thank-you for your advice @JeremyRubin<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin> on =
the basis you advise, "Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features=
", I am prepred to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of =
Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identi=
fiable, the PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation.

Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result of a su=
bset of transactions although the operation of the channel is observable to=
 the parties.

The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot pub=
lished in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformatio=
n nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have. =
It is important not to allow things to slip through the cracks. As you may =
believe may astute reviewers could make a full disclosure to this list it i=
s not to be expected.

KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.


Willtech
www.willtech.com.au<mail://local/Sent/www.willtech.com.au>
www.go-overt.com<mail://local/Sent/www.go-overt.com>
and other projects

earn.com/willtech
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai=
l if misdelivered.
________________________________
From: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM
To: LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au>; Bitcoin Protocol=
 Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy featu=
res any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, taproot is=
 a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, d=
one so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy dependent on user be=
havior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). For example, it makes =
it possible for lightning channels to look structurally similar to single k=
ey wallets, but it does nothing inherently to obfuscate the transaction gra=
ph as in monero.

Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist in Bitco=
in via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, etc) with =
or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.

Do you have a source on your reporting?

You may wish to rescind your nack.


--
@JeremyRubin<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin><https://twitter.com/JeremyRub=
in>


On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-=
dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org>> wrote:
Good Afternoon,

It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features inc=
luding the ability to hide transactions.

If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain.

A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction=
 is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that transaction=
s may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited =
impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason India has be=
en reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already.

I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming the est=
ablished robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core functionality o=
f Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.

KING JAMES HRMH
Great British Empire

Regards,
The Australian
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
MR. Damian A. James Williamson
Wills

et al.


Willtech
www.willtech.com.au<http://www.willtech.com.au>
www.go-overt.com<http://www.go-overt.com>
and other projects

earn.com/willtech<http://earn.com/willtech>
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson<http://linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson>


m. 0487135719
f. +61261470192


This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this emai=
l if misdelivered.
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat=
ion.org>
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
 color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
</div>
<span style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.=
666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:au=
to">Good Evening,</span>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Thank-you for your advice<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span=
><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin=
</a><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>on the basis you adv=
ise, &quot;Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy
 features&quot;, I am prepred to withdraw my NACK notably that the existing=
 feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transac=
tion is identifiable, the PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obf=
uscation.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result of a su=
bset of transactions although the operation of the channel is observable to=
 the parties.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot pub=
lished in a public media channel may have been speculation or misinformatio=
n nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you see that I have. =
It is important not to allow things
 to slip through the cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could =
make a full disclosure to this list it is not to be expected.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
KING JAMES HRMH</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Great British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
The Australian</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH)</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Wills</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
et al.</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
Willtech</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<a href=3D"mail://local/Sent/www.willtech.com.au">www.willtech.com.au</a></=
div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<a href=3D"mail://local/Sent/www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a></div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
and other projects</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
earn.com/willtech</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
m. 0487135719</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
f. +61261470192</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6=
66666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:aut=
o">
<br>
</div>
<span style=3D"caret-color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.=
666666984558105px;font-weight:normal;orphans:auto;text-align:left;widows:au=
to"><font size=3D"2">This email does not constitute a general advice. Pleas=
e disregard this email if misdelivered.</font></span>
<div>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Jeremy &lt;jlrubin@=
mit.edu&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH &lt;willtech@live.com.au&gt;; Bit=
coin Protocol Discussion &lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy featu=
res any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, taproot is=
 a way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, d=
one so in a manner that may marginally
 improve privacy dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like way=
 you mention). For example, it makes it possible for lightning channels to =
look structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does nothing inhere=
ntly to obfuscate the transaction
 graph as in monero.<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
Such &quot;monero-like&quot; transaction graph obfuscation may already exis=
t in Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, =
etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
Do you have a source on your reporting?</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif; font-size:small; color:#000000">
You may wish to rescind your nack.<br clear=3D"all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">--<br>
<a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin<=
/a><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin" target=3D"_blank"></a></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"x_gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LOR=
D HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-d=
ev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"x_gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
Good Afternoon,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like features inc=
luding the ability to hide transactions.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction=
 is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so that transaction=
s may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited =
impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation
 has that is the reason India has been reported to have banned cryptocurren=
cies already.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without harming the est=
ablished robust fairness and equal equity offered. The core functionality o=
f Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12=
pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</span></span>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12p=
t; color:rgb(0,0,0)">KING JAMES HRMH</span></div>
<span><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12=
pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">Great British Empire</span></span><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_gmail-m_4980216234097253335Signature">
<div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>Regards,
<div>The Australian</div>
<div>LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH)</div>
<div>of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire</div>
<div>MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div>
<div>Wills</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>et al.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div></div>
Willtech
<div><a href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au" target=3D"_blank">www.willtech.=
com.au</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com" target=3D"_blank">www.go-overt.com=
</a></div>
<div>and other projects</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://earn.com/willtech" target=3D"_blank">earn.com/willte=
ch</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson" target=3D"_blank">=
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>m. 0487135719</div>
<div>f. +61261470192</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size:10pt">This email does not constitute a genera=
l advice. Please disregard this email if misdelivered.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
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