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References: <CAD5xwhhmNn9a0v55J9zrPHN9FxL+jqEJx13n2zLb1-_0u_1Zjw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAD5xwhhmNn9a0v55J9zrPHN9FxL+jqEJx13n2zLb1-_0u_1Zjw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 11:10:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CAD5xwhiEH0dL6OVt143dS0j+W4WLoqsLDUV3Zw146-jX+S-oNw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b6631a05be0fde3c"
Cc: Bitcoin development mailing list <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] (Recurring) Taproot activation meeting on IRC -
 Tuesday 23rd March 19:00 UTC + every fortnight
Precedence: list

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Meeting Reminder:

A few people have pinged me asking when the meeting is. It is in the title
of the email, apologies if that was unclear.

19:00 UTC this Tuesday (12pm Pacific Time).

If you would like to pre-register a comment please try to send it to the
list today or tomorrow if possible, it will help with giving participants a
chance to review any longer form content in advance of the meeting and
ensure a productive conversation.

Best,

Jeremy

--
@JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>


On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 2:41 PM Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu> wrote:

> In response to the previous Taproot Activation Meeting, I noted that the
> advance notice was insufficient and proposed having the proposed meeting
> the following week, to consider the meeting last week as a "discussion",
> and thereafter reserving a meeting slot fortnightly reserved. I've been
> asked/volunteered in the ##taproot-activation IRC channel on freenode to
> announce, assemble an agenda, and host this meeting. *If you plan to
> attend please read the entire email as there are some specific instructions
> for participation that have differed from past meetings.*
>
> I've attached an ICS file with scheduling this meeting for 10 repetitions
> for your convenience. Subsequent meetings will hopefully be unnecessary,
> but scheduling them in advance helps ensure a process that respects all
> parties desire to participate.
>
> The purpose of this meeting is to serve as a checkpoint to raise any
> blocking issues and to attempt to finalize parameter selection. As such,
> I've attempted to make a guided agenda that should move towards
> finalization rather than continuation of debate and makes the best use of
> everyone's time. If there are topics missing or if I didn't accurately
> capture the zeitgeist of discussion, please chime in with suggested changes
> to the agenda.
>
> If you cannot attend the meeting you may per-register a comment by
> replying to this email. You may also pre-register a comment here for any
> reason for ease of reference during the meeting, but it is not required. So
> that we can keep the meeting focused and adjust agenda accordingly, I'll
> also request explicitly that certain categories of comment described below
> be pre-registered. Please keep this thread limited to pre-registered
> comments rather than responses to such comments, which will be addressed in
> the meeting.
>
> For the meeting this coming Tuesday the plan is to attempt to finalize on:
>
> 1. Resolving any outstanding concerns around using a Speedy Trial to
> attempt to activate Taproot that must be addressed.
>
> There seems to be diverse consensus on ST, as per
> https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/92899f27f1ab30aa2ebee82314f8fe7f#gistcomment-3668460
> .
>
> *As such, please pre-register any concern about any ST variant at all by
> responding below.*
>
> 2. Selecting between start/stop heights and times for a speedy trial.
>
> See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21392.
>
> The focus of this discussion should be focused on blocking reasons to not
> use time based parameters, the code review process, and timelines for being
> able to utilize either activation method.
>
> It is already a widely acknowledged preference for heights over times from
> a blank slate pure technical point of view, this discussion is intended to
> be more pragmatic about safety, hitting the timelines we want to, and
> shipping code.
>
> *As such, If you wish to advocate for MTP from a blank slate pure
> technical point of view, please pre-register a comment below so we can
> adjust the agenda ahead of time. *
>
> 3. Parameter Selection for start/stop/active points.
>
> Short of resolving height or time based start/stop, a discussion of
> selecting acceptable parameters. We should get agreement on both sets of
> height or time parameters irrespective of the resolution to 2, so that this
> conversation can proceed independently.
>
> My personal pre-meeting suggestion to keep the discussion moving is that
> we primarily discuss based on time (as it is the independent variable), and
> simply use the next (not previous) starting signalling period based on a
> projection of 10 minute average blocks from today's date to determine the
> specific height parameters. *Please pre-register if you have a different
> suggestion.*
>
> 4. Parameter flexibility.
>
> If we select parameters but, for some reason, need to adjust by a week or
> two, does this invalidate all ACKs on parameter selection? Or can we agree
> upon some slack in the timeline to accommodate unforeseen development
> issues.
>
> 5. Simultaneous UASF.
>
> There still seems to be some activity on the front of a simultaneous to ST
> UASF. As this has the potential to derail the meeting if there should be
> UASF at all (which I think is orthogonal to the goals of this meeting), and
> given many participants unfamiliarity with the proposal for a UASF,
> *I ask that any issues you wish to raise in this section of the meeting or
> pertaining to UASF in a prior section be made in a detailed pre-registered
> comment. *
>
> I think it is regrettable to place this onus on the UASF organizers, but
> strong communication to the community about plans and intentions seem to be
> essential and in line with what would be required for a UASF to be safe and
> successful in any case. I also recognize that some participants (on either
> side) may not wish to discuss UASF at all in this meeting, but I think that
> it is an important part of the activation discussion irrespective of
> personal views.
>
>
> As a reminder, the channel is also open for ongoing discussion 24/7, and
> there is a web chat client here:
>
> https://webchat.freenode.net/?channel=##taproot-activation
>
> Best,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> --
> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
> <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Meeting Reminder:</div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;=
font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">A=
 few people have pinged me asking when the meeting is. It is in the title o=
f the email, apologies if that was unclear.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;colo=
r:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">19:00 UTC this Tuesda=
y (12pm Pacific Time).</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:small;color:#000000">If you would like to pre-register a comment pl=
ease try to send it to the list today or tomorrow if possible, it will help=
 with giving participants a chance to review any longer form content in adv=
ance of the meeting and ensure a productive conversation.<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Best,</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000=
000">Jeremy<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:aria=
l,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br clear=3D"all"></d=
iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubi=
n" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin</a><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyR=
ubin" target=3D"_blank"></a></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 2=
:41 PM Jeremy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jlrubin@mit.edu">jlrubin@mit.edu</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica=
,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">In response to the previous T=
aproot Activation Meeting, I noted that the advance notice was insufficient=
 and proposed having the proposed meeting the following week, to consider t=
he meeting last week as a &quot;discussion&quot;, and thereafter reserving =
a meeting slot fortnightly reserved. I&#39;ve been asked/volunteered in the=
 ##taproot-activation IRC channel on freenode to announce, assemble an agen=
da, and host this meeting. <b>If you plan to attend please read the entire =
email as there are some specific instructions for participation that have d=
iffered from past meetings.</b><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I&#39;ve attached an ICS fi=
le with scheduling this meeting for 10 repetitions for your convenience. Su=
bsequent meetings will hopefully be unnecessary, but scheduling them in adv=
ance helps ensure a process that respects all parties desire to participate=
.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetic=
a,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;=
color:rgb(0,0,0)">The purpose of this meeting is to serve as a checkpoint t=
o raise any blocking issues and to attempt to finalize parameter selection.=
 As such, I&#39;ve attempted to make a guided agenda that should move towar=
ds finalization rather than continuation of debate and makes the best use o=
f everyone&#39;s time. If there are topics missing or if I didn&#39;t accur=
ately capture the zeitgeist of discussion, please chime in with suggested c=
hanges to the agenda.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-f=
amily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-se=
rif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">If you cannot attend the meeting you =
may per-register a comment by replying to this email. You may also pre-regi=
ster a comment here for any reason for ease of reference during the meeting=
, but it is not required. So that we can keep the meeting focused and adjus=
t agenda accordingly, I&#39;ll also request explicitly that certain categor=
ies of comment described below be pre-registered. Please keep this thread l=
imited to pre-registered comments rather than responses to such comments, w=
hich will be addressed in the meeting. </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,=
0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">For the meeting this co=
ming Tuesday the plan is to attempt to finalize on:</div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;=
color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">1. Resolvin=
g any outstanding concerns around using a Speedy Trial to attempt to activa=
te Taproot that must be addressed.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helveti=
ca,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">There seems to be diverse c=
onsensus on ST, as per <a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/92=
899f27f1ab30aa2ebee82314f8fe7f#gistcomment-3668460" target=3D"_blank">https=
://gist.github.com/michaelfolkson/92899f27f1ab30aa2ebee82314f8fe7f#gistcomm=
ent-3668460</a>.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>As such, please pre-register any concern ab=
out any ST variant at all by responding below.</b></div><div class=3D"gmail=
_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,san=
s-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">2. Selecting between start/stop h=
eights and times for a speedy trial.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0=
)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> See <a href=3D"https://gi=
thub.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/b=
itcoin/bitcoin/pull/21377</a> <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin=
/pull/21392" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2139=
2</a>. </div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvet=
ica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:smal=
l;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The focus of this discussion should be focused on block=
ing reasons to not use time based parameters, the code review process, and =
timelines for being able to utilize either activation method.</div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-s=
ize:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I=
t is already a widely acknowledged preference for heights over times from a=
 blank slate pure technical point of view, this discussion is intended to b=
e more pragmatic about safety, hitting the timelines we want to, and shippi=
ng code.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sma=
ll;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b>As such, If you wish to advocate for MTP from a bla=
nk slate pure technical point of view, please pre-register a comment below =
so we can adjust the agenda ahead of time. </b><br></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;=
color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">3. Paramete=
r Selection for start/stop/active points.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(=
0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,h=
elvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Short of resolving he=
ight or time based start/stop, a discussion of selecting acceptable paramet=
ers. We should get agreement on both sets of height or time parameters irre=
spective of the resolution to 2, so that this conversation can proceed inde=
pendently.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall;color:rgb(0,0,0)">My personal pre-meeting suggestion to keep the discu=
ssion moving is that we primarily discuss based on time (as it is the indep=
endent variable), and simply use the next (not previous) starting signallin=
g period based on a projection of 10 minute average blocks from today&#39;s=
 date to determine the specific height parameters. <b>Please pre-register i=
f you have a different suggestion.</b><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb=
(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">4. Parameter flexibi=
lity. <br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:s=
mall;color:rgb(0,0,0)">If we select parameters but, for some reason, need t=
o adjust by a week or two, does this invalidate all ACKs on parameter selec=
tion? Or can we agree upon some slack in the timeline to accommodate unfore=
seen development issues.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">5. Simultaneous UASF.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"f=
ont-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The=
re still seems to be some activity on the front of a simultaneous to ST UAS=
F. As this has the potential to derail the meeting  if there should be UASF=
 at all (which I think is orthogonal to the goals of this meeting), and giv=
en many participants unfamiliarity with the proposal for a UASF, <b>I ask t=
hat any issues you wish to raise in this section of the meeting or pertaini=
ng to UASF in a prior section be made in a detailed pre-registered comment.=
 <br></b></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helv=
etica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><b><br></b></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-=
size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I think it is regrettable to place this onus o=
n the UASF organizers, but strong communication to the community about plan=
s and intentions seem to be essential and in line with what would be requir=
ed for a UASF to be safe and successful in any case. I also recognize that =
some participants (on either side) may not wish to discuss UASF at all in t=
his meeting, but I think that it is an important part of the activation dis=
cussion irrespective of personal views.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rg=
b(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial=
,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
As a reminder, the channel is also open for ongoing discussion 24/7, and th=
ere is a web chat client here:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://webchat.freenode.net/?channel=3D#%23taproot-activation" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://webchat.freenode.net/?channel=
=3D##taproot-activation</a></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-=
serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:=
rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:ari=
al,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Jeremy<br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif=
;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">--<br><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin=
" target=3D"_blank">@JeremyRubin</a><a href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRu=
bin" target=3D"_blank"></a></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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