Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1DAC0001 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:39:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A88FB41A06 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:39:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aCBiYn_4eMB1 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:39:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 146B94182F for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:39:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id p12so4385713ljg.1 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 08:39:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Zf3xdzPWz8+XQBB+fqSjSDC6DaOu7COQdnpg/s6myFc=; b=FpgZKzuxOgJZbOkpHkgwUivilBbRhX6mhYnplzjIxrl72QTI7TwQXyrI031snPuVFq nUxgLqGb/XI1bCbo4DGkude5NBFZJG3i57pZtEPxi7gRGBApA4eBFnbE7Bct5f1ecS59 kHGSvUV3kjIesjwAdYpCaw7i49Fign1v5lRs95U2iacdQ8pS4uzEYNdNagpN4jJTIw7n ZQrxWfNIv6Mz77Zfh3h6JaH6Umh68cgPFtWZj33o6DqGjKJB77uQkYICS+J4KsfTZ4w+ s9Go0Hw+/SDA522oK4IIt2sAYoF3BY3gSbKCs5mY8ms7mMdzouhbI3KCB6HVyvAPJo51 10mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Zf3xdzPWz8+XQBB+fqSjSDC6DaOu7COQdnpg/s6myFc=; b=VBAUcE6KoJBh3az+9VEIlfO2+Hnszv3SaxqqUKoZ852d89I5gYuqeqsMCHHd6VEPiv zU9LFxy1lfm5f2OlIvPsvyq7U8wAAV1Fl1WqIq2hIiGJ5kA7k2HaunIm/QwYb6mGEOWu BkJmH8C5mAHA8qe3LIVpxyEZWeJ2XTo+8eKo3iN25SJ6RbXMV7mGJklSRJqw3JoTc6eD EP4hTRSaf7HEx4bkcegrX0p3EMhnUvlRsRKj7TikWMz+BXyUewA3yccfpV26JY+Ej/jj EO6xqksT115g8nQFWMZWZ71TymuW/n0lPc8CcmauzGqdCnW1+EJRqY9aLpz4FspvScy8 5Lgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Ipamr2XHHI/4cKnwPUHvI+BNgX+xs5rRs6ERas1+E70kYCRZw EPUdksVmLlVZyRLO5O5QUcTvoXNc46zhRB0ukfEMf6ZgQ2M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyvhjtH1rDVz63zT3hi3CztiM9IAEhwRoApDG0Buvp97CJA2eRQH1aHLebyJE2SzhIter8gHtlQilhLQIB1TYM= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c6:: with SMTP id 189mr4301352ljj.262.1619797174993; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210426003640.2sjx4f35l3vdtxwe@ganymede> <4def9376-03dc-3805-89ea-28bd78077084@dyne.org> In-Reply-To: <4def9376-03dc-3805-89ea-28bd78077084@dyne.org> From: Karl Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: To: Amir Taaki , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003945b905c1326bd2" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:54:50 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Proposed BIP editor: Kalle Alm X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:39:38 -0000 --0000000000003945b905c1326bd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A good solution here is to make it clear to visitors that facilitation, mediation, and organisation help is badly needed in the core development team. People with such expertise can even be hired directly. A good facilitator opens communication paths between all parties, leaving everyone satisfied with decisions. Don't accept a compromise if you can look for something better. On Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 8:00 AM Amir Taaki via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > A committee to guide the committee? You guys truly have lost the plot. > > All the good minds and cryptographers have left Bitcoin. What remains is > an empty echo chamber. > > Truth is these problems start with lack of vision and long-term roadmap, > not with the processes themselves. > > And the Bitcoin Core monopoly created this situation; one coin, one > client, one vision. And the inevitable infighting for ultimate power. > > Really if we want to go down this route, there should be a long period > of self reflection about where the problems began rather than patching > some process and moving on. > > I propose Bitcoin Core is dissolved as the official Bitcoin project. The > community is free to elect their preferred version of Bitcoin. And most > importantly, Bitcoin developers commit to a fully specced standard that > all implementations move towards using. > > On 4/28/21 12:30 AM, Jaime Caring via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate > > Greg's NACK. > > > > I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributors, > > including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set of > > editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process > > prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes > > proceedings clear. > > > > My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed here: > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113 > > > > > > I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleased > > should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead. > > > > Peace be upon you, > > > > JC > > > > On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev > > > > wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxwell via > > bitcoin-dev wrote: > > > I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at this time. Those who > > > believe [this] will resolve the situation [...] re: PR1104 are > > > mistaken. > > > > PR1104 has been merged. Do you continue to oppose the addition? > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Dave > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > bitcoin-dev mailing list > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > --0000000000003945b905c1326bd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A good solution here is to make it clear to visitors that= facilitation, mediation, and organisation help is badly needed in the core= development team.

People with= such expertise can even be hired directly.

A good facilitator opens communication paths between al= l parties, leaving everyone satisfied with decisions.=C2=A0 Don't accep= t a compromise if you can look for something better.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2= 021, 8:00 AM Amir Taaki via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wro= te:
A committee to guide the commit= tee? You guys truly have lost the plot.

All the good minds and cryptographers have left Bitcoin. What remains is an empty echo chamber.

Truth is these problems start with lack of vision and long-term roadmap, not with the processes themselves.

And the Bitcoin Core monopoly created this situation; one coin, one
client, one vision. And the inevitable infighting for ultimate power.

Really if we want to go down this route, there should be a long period
of self reflection about where the problems began rather than patching
some process and moving on.

I propose Bitcoin Core is dissolved as the official Bitcoin project. The community is free to elect their preferred version of Bitcoin. And most
importantly, Bitcoin developers commit to a fully specced standard that
all implementations move towards using.

On 4/28/21 12:30 AM, Jaime Caring via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Kalle should not be made an editor by an ad-hoc process. I reiterate > Greg's NACK.
>
> I propose that we form a stewardship committee of frequent contributor= s,
> including you, Greg, and 21 others. The stewards appoint a small set o= f
> editors with permanent oversight by the stewards. A defined process > prevents this controversy from arising in the future and makes
> proceedings clear.
>
> My proposal has been moderated off of this list, but may be viewed her= e:
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1113
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/11= 13>
>
> I care not for the role of initial transitory editor. I would be pleas= ed
> should any responsible community member shoulder this onus in my stead= .
>
> Peace be upon you,
>
> JC
>
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 at 00:37, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 04:42:12AM +0000, Greg Maxw= ell via
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bitcoin-dev wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> I am opposed to the addition of Kalle Alm at t= his time.=C2=A0 Those who
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> believe [this] will resolve the situation [...= ] re: PR1104 are
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> mistaken.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PR1104 has been merged.=C2=A0 Do you continue to op= pose the addition?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-Dave
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bitcoin-dev mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundatio= n.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.lin= uxfoundation.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0htt= ps://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfou= ndation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundati= on.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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