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[66.183.0.127]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-313a4746c96si748448a91.0.2025.06.15.09.14.07 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 15 Jun 2025 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.127 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.183.0.127; Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 16:14:05 +0000 From: Andrew Poelstra To: Bryan Bishop Cc: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] The case for privatizing Bitcoin Core Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Df9zXCcITJ+E0z1d" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: apoelstra@wpsoftware.net X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@mail.wpsoftware.net header.s=default header.b=lIX0Yxpq; spf=pass (google.com: domain of apoelstra@wpsoftware.net designates 66.183.0.127 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=apoelstra@wpsoftware.net; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=wpsoftware.net Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) --Df9zXCcITJ+E0z1d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline I have a few thoughts about this -- bearing in mind that I am a drive-by contributor to Core, at best, and don't have much personal opinion other than maybe "I wish it were easier to get stuff in". 1. I think that Antoine is correct that "it's easier and more natural" is a bigger motivation for "office work" than is the fear of brigade. So one thing is that any change to public processes shouldn't make it _harder_ for people to collaborate online, since that could push people more to in-person fora and we'd just have the worst of both worlds. Or at least, anyone making such a change should have a lot of confidence that the increased friendliness to earnest contributors would outweigh the extra friction. 2. On the other hand, fear of brigades _does_ clearly have a nonzero chilling effect. I certainly think about it when publicly communicating near the project, and I commonly bring it up when doing things in rust-bitcoin (i.e. "fortunately, we're not Core, so we can just do [some change that would constrain wallet workflows, or which could make ordinals particularly hard, or particularly easy, or whatever]" and not have to worry about fallout.) So at the very least, it's a factor that discourages some external developers from being bigger contributors to the project. 3. And of course, it's not just obvious brigades -- when one or two nontechnical people show up with strong political views about something which really is not a political change (or at least, doesn't have the political effect they believe it does, because of their own misunderstanding), it's still discouraging and sometimes stressful. And this happens all the time around mempool policy, even if PRs with 100+ comments that get locked are fairly rare. 4. However, after (ironically) discussing this email off-list with a bunch of people, I think that these problems stem from a fairly small cultural issue: that the Github repo appears to be a totally open forum where anyone is welcome to participate, even in code review threads, because technically anybody _can_ participate with no obvious sense that they're leaving X and entering somebody's workplace. And _this_, IMHO, might be solvable by something extremely simple. It might be sufficient to just move from Github to Gitlab or Codeberg or something where far fewer people have accounts. It would probably be sufficient to just find a platform where you have to register on the Core repo somehow then wait 24 hours before you can post, with the implication that if you're not there to contribute technically, you might lose your access. (This is true on Github but the only mechanism is that you can be banned from the org, something that feels heavy and scary for maintainers to use -- I really hate doing this to non-bots on rust-bitcoin and I don't even have to worry that they'll go on twitter to scream censorship and that I'm taking over Bitcoin or whatever -- and is also more-or-less invisible to users until it happens to them, so it's not an effective deterrent.) It would certainly be effective to put a strong technical barrier, e.g. you have to produce a custom mining share to join, or a strong social barrier, e.g. you need personal invitations from two people. But I think such tech barriers would be unnecessary and the social barriers wouldn't be worth the cries of censorship and centralization that they'd inevitably (and somewhat reasonably) cause. 5. I don't see much of benefit to making the repo *unreadable* to outsiders. It sorta prevents linking on Twitter but if we expect there to be mirrors, people can just link to the mirrors. Again, it's not my project and I don't mean to advocate for anything in particular. Just trying to organize thinking on the topic a bit. -- Andrew Poelstra Director, Blockstream Research Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew The sun is always shining in space -Justin Lewis-Webster -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/aE7xTUoUrPkNtDql%40mail.wpsoftware.net. --Df9zXCcITJ+E0z1d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEkPnKPD7Je+ki35VexYjWPOQbl8EFAmhO8UgACgkQxYjWPOQb l8GidQf7BqLwYymmHUCOKvYydIy7B6ymSds9mphESTW95V7sO06PDToYcVodj5nK wJqv0upk1hJPeKQ5pbSZAkljz5ZOzfyR5Pi/XJbQdd4vnQbUfs14nDNk8C7cqn9P A9JB/hcMEKpgRt9aefQwWoP7B+U3AXq+zfV099tP8mzcjE7aj/t4bFNmwi0VXSG6 kd4iJSQMsvz5Rmz1aO6LwnbwkroaWS+LfNmbS/RHQhwNyPigjiaMFP426t9Wxy1H jfz1B1VOHrYMAUpjwVk8rjZWOYOAeNrAJtpoRhwZJfO0+wuRhQ0lPee24fc2Snby TLn0U06dnIxNPtKtvGYtC9c84X7cNA== =+Ygg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Df9zXCcITJ+E0z1d--