Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1WmSWx-000452-2A for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 May 2014 18:43:23 +0000 Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com designates 209.85.215.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.215.50; envelope-from=gmaxwell@gmail.com; helo=mail-la0-f50.google.com; Received: from mail-la0-f50.google.com ([209.85.215.50]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1WmSWw-0005Ju-0Y for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Mon, 19 May 2014 18:43:23 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id b8so4353863lan.23 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.165.40 with SMTP id yv8mr2849893lbb.83.1400524995318; Mon, 19 May 2014 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.89.68 with HTTP; Mon, 19 May 2014 11:43:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5377892C.8080402@gmail.com> <5379FF38.4050909@certimix.com> <20140519144709.GA29574@netbook.cypherspace.org> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 11:43:15 -0700 Message-ID: From: Gregory Maxwell To: Mike Hearn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for sender-domain 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gmaxwell[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1WmSWw-0005Ju-0Y Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] patents... X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 18:43:23 -0000 On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Mike Hearn wrote: > The first rule of patents is you do not go looking for patents. US law is > written in a really stupid way, such that if you knowingly infringe, dama= ges > triple. Because America uses the patent office as a revenue source, You have received outdated advice on this point. In Re Seagate (http://patentlyo.com/patent/2007/08/in-re-seagate-t.html) this precident was over-turned (and has subsequently been upheld in other cases). Avoiding willfull infringement no longer requires paying off a patent attorney to get a freedom to operate review. This isn't to say that reading patents is always productive now: They're often nearly inscrutable (especially to people without substantial patent reading experience), and you may discover potential infringement that creates more work for you to sort out (especially since people without patent experience tend to read patents much more broadly than they actually are). There are other defensive approaches which are interesting than hoping to use patents as a counter attack: For one=E2=80=94 filing a patent gets t= he work entered in the only database that USPTO examiners are _guaranteed_ to consult when doing a prior art search, so it may have a fighting chance of precluding someone else patenting the same material later (they may also search the internet and use other resources, but they're guaranteed to consult the existing patents and applications). Patents can also be used defensively as leverage in a licensing negotiation: Without your own patents you don't get invited to the negotiating table at all with someone else who may hold patents in a space that you're working on. These are somewhat thin advantages so great care is required to make sure that things are setup so that badness cannot happen later when inevitable changes of ownership happen.