Return-Path: Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0294DC000B for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:46:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE18A40268 for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:46:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gazeta.pl Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sdHirkeuLZYx for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:46:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from smtpo89.poczta.onet.pl (smtpo89.poczta.onet.pl [213.180.149.142]) by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D27494009E for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 20:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pmq4v.m5r2.onet (pmq4v.m5r2.onet [10.174.32.70]) by smtp.poczta.onet.pl (Onet) with ESMTP id 4K9Kd94NGszlhmkd for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2022 21:46:05 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gazeta.pl; s=2013; t=1646426765; bh=Qr6OhgSGzJ/RAQbPK9k7CK/ZqgHn51b24Rqg/VhHMvk=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:From; b=T/zoYXiu+nggCrLwLua+/ldOzNqQGYxmLmCD7JLz84WHTf/F3CCN1B3+cXoPQvlY+ nE1klbAR55LqjVOXXZ25kqcM5kYVuuUo9MBl1lHDrQf9agREJ1LEJXNFxRiwl4oGts AUsT4XZS7Wx06nQ8GuAtTpQm5cEEeVIP1xg+wRQ0= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received: from [5.173.240.223] by pmq4v.m5r2.onet via HTTP id ; Fri, 04 Mar 2022 21:46:05 +0100 From: vjudeu@gazeta.pl X-Priority: 3 To: "bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 21:46:04 +0100 Message-Id: <158234619-439597ed4ddc4a9f90ea573513b5f5a3@pmq4v.m5r2.onet> X-Mailer: onet.poczta X-Onet-PMQ: ;5.173.240.223;PL;1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 Mar 2022 15:53:26 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] One testnet to rule them all X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 20:46:14 -0000 In testnet3, anyone can become a miner, it is possible to even mine a block= on some CPU, because the difficulty can drop to one. In signet, we create = some challenge, for example 1-of-2 multisig, that can restrict who can mine= , so that chain can be "unreliably reliable". Then, my question is: why sig= nets are introducing new coins out of thin air, instead of forming two-way = peg-in between testnet3 and signet? The lack of coins is not a bug, it is a feature. We have more halvings in t= estnet3 than in mainnet or signets, but it can be good, we can use this to = see, what can happen with a chain after many halvings. Also, in testnet3 th= ere is no need to have any coins if we are mining. Miners can create, move = and destroy zero satoshis. They can also extend the precision of the coins,= so a single coin in testnet3 can be represented as a thousand of coins in = some signet sidechain. Recently, there are some discussions regarding sidechains. Before they will= become a real thing, running on mainnet, they should be tested. Nowadays, = a popular way of testing new features is creating a new signet with new rul= es. But the question still remains: why we need new coins, created out of t= hin air? And even when some signet wants to do that, then why it is not peg= ged into testnet3? Then it would have as much chainwork protection as testn= et3! It seems that testnet3 is good enough to represent the main chain during si= dechain testing. It is permissionless and open, anyone can start mining sid= echain blocks, anyone with a CPU can be lucky and find a block with the min= imal difficulty. Also, because of blockstorms and regular chain reorgs, som= e extreme scenarios, like stealing all coins from some sidechain, can be te= sted in a public way, because that "unfriendly and unstable" environment ca= n be used to test stronger attacks than in a typical chain. Putting that proposal into practice can be simple and require just creating= one Taproot address per signet in testnet3. Then, it is possible to create= one testnet transaction (every three months) that would move coins to and = from testnet3, so the same coins could travel between many signets. New sig= nets can be pegged in with 1:1 ratio, existing signets can be transformed i= nto signet sidechains (the signet miners rule that chains, so they can enfo= rce any transition rules they need).