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From: NVK <rodolfo@coinkite.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:32:26 -0500
Message-Id: <7B4BE76C-63AF-4B84-805F-B78574A93D65@coinkite.com>
References: <a7b4924d7148f85b1a7676a1c113eccc0b06cc86.camel@timruffing.de>
Cc: Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo.com>,
 Sergi Delgado Segura <sergi.delgado.s@gmail.com>, nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <a7b4924d7148f85b1a7676a1c113eccc0b06cc86.camel@timruffing.de>
To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@timruffing.de>
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com

I understand the skepticism with more people. I was also skeptical about ha=
ving larger committees, but after doing working on the open stats board whi=
ch is 9 people and it being extremely efficient and practical I've changed =
my outlook on the numbers.

What do you do gain is more people to be available to review applications. =
Which is often the bottleneck. I doubt there would be much contention on th=
e opinions of the group.

Just my two 2 cents.

(mobile)

> On Apr 16, 2024, at 08:16, Tim Ruffing <crypto@timruffing.de> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFI fully agree with Sergi and Matt here.=20
>=20
> (Sorry, this is just a +1 message, but I really don't have anything
> meaningful to add to their arguments.)
>=20
> Tim
>=20
>> On Mon, 2024-04-15 at 13:50 -0400, Matt Corallo wrote:
>> Strongly agree with Sergi here,
>>=20
>> I'd suggest 2-3 BIP editors who are actually responsible for things
>> is more useful than 5 BIP
>> editors where no one is responsible for anything.
>>=20
>> Again, I'm not convinced dumping this on more people is useful, folks
>> like Roasbeef are great but
>> clearly don't have time to keep up with yet more things, and not sure
>> why folks are on the list here
>> who haven't been active on the Bitcoin-dev ML and in BIPs for many
>> years (eg no idea who Seccour is).
>>=20
>> Matt
>>=20
>>> On 4/11/24 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>  > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task,
>>> so personal preferences are easily
>>> ignored and overwritten by the group majority.
>>>=20
>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
>>> Having too many editors may result in
>>> a tragedy of the commons, in which people just commit to the job
>>> because many others do, and they do
>>> not end up doing as much because they expect others to do the it.
>>> This does not only make the
>>> process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up doing the
>>> job, given their time commitment
>>> ends up being too far from their expectations.
>>>=20
>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better,
>>> and gives us leeway in case the
>>> workload ends up being excessive and we need to add more people
>>> (plus discourage people from joining
>>> and slacking off).
>>>=20
>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. I'd
>>> personally vouch for Murch,
>>> Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track record in the space
>>>=20
>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30=E2=80=AFPM nvk
>>> <rdlfnvk@gmail.com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> +1 for
>>> Kanzure
>>> RubenSomsen
>>> Seccour
>>> Jon Atack
>>> Roasbeef
>>>=20
>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> personal preferences are
>>> easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority.
>>>=20
>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>=20
>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>=20
>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>=20
>>>     On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC-4 David A. Hardi=
ng
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>>         On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>          > Please provide justification rather than simply saying
>>> "I like Bob!".
>>>=20
>>>         Using only comments from the mailing list, the following
>>> appears to be
>>>         the candidate list along with the current support.
>>> Asterisks denote
>>>         candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the
>>> role.
>>>=20
>>>         - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>>         Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
>>> Brandon
>>>         Black[11],
>>>         Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>=20
>>>         - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> Stewart[3], Michael
>>>         Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
>>> Poinsot[15], John
>>>         Carvalho[16]
>>>=20
>>>         - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>>         /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>         Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>=20
>>>         - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>> Stewart[3], John
>>>         C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
>>> Antoine
>>>         Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>=20
>>>         - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6],
>>> Keagan
>>>         McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>> Riard[12],
>>>         Ava Chow[14]
>>>=20
>>>         - Michael Folkson*
>>>=20
>>>         Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>> "non-dev
>>>         triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor",
>>> and Antoine
>>>         Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>=20
>>>         I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the
>>> above
>>>         candidates had been especially active there, which is
>>> listed below as:
>>>         total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
>>> closed).
>>>=20
>>>         - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>         - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>         - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>         - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>         - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>         - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>=20
>>>         I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set
>>> to have a
>>>         merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there
>>> are far-along
>>>         draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>> Payments). I
>>>         don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>> demonstrates
>>>         familiarity with the process.
>>>=20
>>>         Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
>>> above with
>>>         multiple recommendations from other community participants
>>> are fully
>>>         qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>> justification
>>>         for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
>>> only a
>>>         longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as
>>> Corallo
>>>         mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
>>> through a draft
>>>         BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review
>>> of all 300
>>>         pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>> reviewed
>>>         drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>         significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility
>>> of the
>>>         documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work
>>> we'd ask him
>>>         to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's
>>> already doing,
>>>         so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>=20
>>>         -Dave
>>>=20
>>>         [1]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d979275
>>> 51e@achow101.com/>
>>>         [2]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a6
>>> 2a3@dashjr.org/>
>>>         [3]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f12
>>> 9a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>         [4]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b
>>> 713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>>         [5]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157
>>> fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>>         [6]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d
>>> 006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>         [7]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efb
>>> ea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>         [8]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEaz=
RA5...@mail.gmail.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgL
>>> EazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>         [9]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
>>>         [10]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9
>>> bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>>         [11]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>         [12]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmai=
l.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEb
>>> HSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>         [13]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e
>>> 778@murch.one/>
>>>         [14]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0
>>> 644@achow101.com/>
>>>         [15]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsui=
zh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@pr=
otonmail.com/
>>>  <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsui=
zh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@pr=
otonmail.com/
>>>>=20
>>>         [16]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com=
/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340
>>> 661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>         [17]
>>>       =20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9=
Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
>>>       =20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd
>>> 9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>=20
>>>     --
>>>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>> Google Groups "Bitcoin Development
>>>     Mailing List" group.
>>>     To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>> it, send an email to
>>>   =20
>>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com
>>>> .
>>>     To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>   =20
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-ae=
bcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com
>>>  <
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-ae=
bcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter
>>>> .
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Sergi.
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development
>>> Mailing List" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an email to
>>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com <mailto:
>>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiX=
BcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  <
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiX=
BcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sourc=
e=3Dfooter
>>>> .
>>=20
>=20
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