Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:02:46 -0700
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of me@drbonez.dev designates 198.54.127.69 as permitted sender) client-ip=198.54.127.69;
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:44:41 -0600
From: "'Aiden McClelland' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com, jeremy <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] [BIP Proposal] Mempool Validation and Relay Policies
 via User-Defined Scripts
User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
In-Reply-To: <8c6bb024-437f-4122-8ae0-f8ed9b9c23e4n@googlegroups.com>
References: <cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-6c68c6554f56n@googlegroups.com> <CALiT-ZqFhMV8VfgOdNyamG4oLgyCL5E7W8s3F9gB_k0ihyUAgA@mail.gmail.com> <E0178F1A-F2D7-4787-BF52-FA75BFC43EE7@drbonez.dev> <8c6bb024-437f-4122-8ae0-f8ed9b9c23e4n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1A33D206-444A-49E7-B1F1-E9FE5F4E32FB@drbonez.dev>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=----GQ46LS9W4CLNE7XRFW0LH0J7UGTMCE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Autocrypt: addr=me@drbonez.dev; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=
 mDMEaNcksxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAgpcI3hOExv1njCt+zJoYBartdyk4SKiqSIy3+9tcpOK0IUFp
 ZGVuIE1jQ2xlbGxhbmQgPG1lQGRyYm9uZXouZGV2PoiJBBMWCAAxFiEEtBbA5nud8/FxhICufP/a
 QcpmBWoFAmjXJLMCGwMECwkIBwUVCAkKCwUWAgMBAAAKCRB8/9pBymYFamtoAQDebf0jXVUtKKur
 70LUB5+dmHndsIeGpVgGEs5rDGhelwD7BTgcermFsaPWXg6p7RjQ9cSCaGdDIp/87QVAy0lMeAy4
 OARo1ySzEgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdATE1CS5FypyXAJdO+9a1LYQR1rgfuEgeChUcYSOUme3oDAQgH
 iHgEGBYIACAWIQS0FsDme53z8XGEgK58/9pBymYFagUCaNckswIbDAAKCRB8/9pBymYFavYZAP95
 dgwYia0VN0Cy75K4+pxiuaG4UpEGdY0v+bgN7zbLVQEA28muMHpEW/b3gtR+W6MaONTQuGFy61Sk
 QaHWmrqyNg8=
Reply-To: Aiden McClelland <me@drbonez.dev>
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com

------GQ46LS9W4CLNE7XRFW0LH0J7UGTMCE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeremy,=20

That's actually really clever. I had wanted the scripts to be able to manag=
e mempool size, and handle prioritization of higher feerate transactions (h=
ence the evict() fn and minFeerate part of the api), which I don't think co=
uld be done with script, and I'm not sure we'd want to add opcodes to make =
that possible, given that it only makes sense in this context. But maybe th=
at part doesn't need to be part of the dynamic scripts? Definitely gives me=
 a lot to think about.=20

Thanks,=20
Aiden McClelland=20

On September 30, 2025 3:09:15 PM MDT, jeremy <jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>Bitcoin already has a built in user defined script language: Bitcoin Scrip=
t.
>
>If you add a couple conditionally verified opcodes (the same ones necessar=
y=20
>for covenants), you could write whatever filter you like, and we'd learn=
=20
>more about what the best opcodes are for writing covenants.
>
>You would execute the script "pretending" to be input 0.
>
>We would then at least learn something about covenants.
>On Tuesday, September 30, 2025 at 2:22:10=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 Aiden McClellan=
d wrote:
>
>> /dev/fd0,
>>
>> I appreciate the comments. A txnotify solution could work, although it=
=20
>> loses a lot of the modularity and sandboxing of what I'm proposing. It=
=20
>> would probably result in a single external binary, running all of the=20
>> policy validation logic, rather than a bundle of scripts you can mix and=
=20
>> match. And it might encourage solutions that involve fetching relay=20
>> policies over the internet, which is probably not ideal. Ideally, updati=
ng=20
>> policy should require user action.=20
>>
>> Thanks,=20
>> Aiden McClelland
>>
>>
>>
>> On September 27, 2025 7:22:28 PM MDT, /dev /fd0 <alice...@gmail.com>=20
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Aiden,
>>>
>>> There is an easy solution based on my understanding of [transaction=20
>>> validation][0] although I have not tested it:
>>>
>>> 1. Add a config option `txnotify` similar to `blocknotify` that execute=
s=20
>>> commands or script when a new transaction is received from a peer.
>>> 2. Add a function `ExecuteTxNotify()` that will run the script provided=
=20
>>> by the user in step 1. Script should either return 'accept' for 'reject=
'=20
>>> and function would return true/false accordingly.
>>> 3. Call `ExecuteTxNotify()` in ` AcceptToMemoryPool()` so that rejected=
=20
>>> transactions do not enter the mempool.
>>>
>>> [0]: https://bitcoincore.academy/transaction-validation.html
>>>
>>> /dev/fd0
>>> floppy disk guy
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2025 at 12:00=E2=80=AFAM Aiden McClelland <m...@drbonez=
.dev>=20
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to share for discussion a draft BIP to allow for a modular=20
>>>> mempool/relay policy: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1985
>>>>
>>>> I think it could potentially reduce conflict within the community arou=
nd=20
>>>> relay policy, as an alternative to running lots of different node=20
>>>> implementations/forks when there are disagreements.
>>>>
>>>> I am working on a reference implementation using Bellard's QuickJS, bu=
t=20
>>>> it has been almost a decade since I've written C++, so it's slow going=
 and=20
>>>> I'm sure doesn't follow best-practices. Once it's working, it can be=
=20
>>>> cleaned up.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Aiden McClelland
>>>>
>>>> --=20
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send=
=20
>>>> an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion visit=20
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-6=
c68c6554f56n%40googlegroups.com=20
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-=
6c68c6554f56n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>
>--=20
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups =
"Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an =
email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev=
/8c6bb024-437f-4122-8ae0-f8ed9b9c23e4n%40googlegroups.com.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
1A33D206-444A-49E7-B1F1-E9FE5F4E32FB%40drbonez.dev.

------GQ46LS9W4CLNE7XRFW0LH0J7UGTMCE
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><body><div dir=3D"auto">Jeremy, <br><br>That's actually =
really clever. I had wanted the scripts to be able to manage mempool size, =
and handle prioritization of higher feerate transactions (hence the evict()=
 fn and minFeerate part of the api), which I don't think could be done with=
 script, and I'm not sure we'd want to add opcodes to make that possible, g=
iven that it only makes sense in this context. But maybe that part doesn't =
need to be part of the dynamic scripts? Definitely gives me a lot to think =
about. <br><br>Thanks, <br>Aiden McClelland </div><br><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">On September 30, 2025 3:09:15 PM MDT, jeremy &l=
t;jeremy.l.rubin@gmail.com&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, =
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Bitcoin already has a built in user defined script language: Bitcoin Script=
.<div><br></div><div>If you add a couple conditionally verified opcodes (th=
e same ones necessary for covenants), you could write whatever filter you l=
ike, and we'd learn more about what the best opcodes are for writing covena=
nts.</div><div><br></div><div>You would execute the script "pretending" to =
be input 0.</div><div><br></div><div>We would then at least learn something=
 about covenants.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tuesday, September 30, 2025 at 2:22:10=E2=80=AFAM UTC-4 =
Aiden McClelland wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-le=
ft: 1ex;"><div><div dir=3D"auto">/dev/fd0,<br><br>I appreciate the comments=
. A txnotify solution could work, although it loses a lot of the modularity=
 and sandboxing of what I'm proposing. It would probably result in a single=
 external binary, running all of the policy validation logic, rather than a=
 bundle of scripts you can mix and match. And it might encourage solutions =
that involve fetching relay policies over the internet, which is probably n=
ot ideal. Ideally, updating policy should require user action. <br><br>Than=
ks, <br>Aiden McClelland<br><br></div></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">On September 27, 2025 7:22:28 PM MDT, /dev /fd0 =
&lt;<a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">alice...@gmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Aiden,<div><br></div><div>There is an easy solution bas=
ed on my understanding of [transaction validation][0] although I have not t=
ested it:<br><br>1. Add a config option `txnotify` similar to `blocknotify`=
 that executes commands or script when a new transaction is received from a=
 peer.</div><div>2. Add a function `ExecuteTxNotify()` that will run the sc=
ript provided by the user in step 1. Script should either return 'accept' f=
or 'reject' and function would return true/false accordingly.</div><div>3. =
Call `ExecuteTxNotify()` in `

AcceptToMemoryPool()` so that rejected transactions do not enter the mempoo=
l.</div><div><br></div><div>[0]:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://bitcoincore.academ=
y/transaction-validation.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-safe=
redirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://bitcoinco=
re.academy/transaction-validation.html&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1759352=
727483000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2ubDqvrsY4bNuqy6Xb67ZK">https://bitcoincore.acade=
my/transaction-validation.html</a><br><br>/dev/fd0<br>floppy disk guy</div>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Thu, Sep 25, 2025 at 12:00=E2=80=AFAM Aiden McClelland &lt;<a href data-=
email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">m...@drbonez.dev</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></=
div><div>I'd like to share for discussion a draft BIP to allow for a modula=
r mempool/relay policy: <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/198=
5" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.g=
oogle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1985&amp=
;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1759352727483000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3Psffw6fUb80db2g=
nmRsfy">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1985</a><br><br></div><div>I t=
hink it could potentially reduce conflict within the community around relay=
 policy, as an alternative to running lots of different node implementation=
s/forks when there are disagreements.</div><div><br></div><div>I am working=
 on a reference implementation using Bellard's QuickJS, but it has been alm=
ost a decade since I've written C++, so it's slow going and I'm sure doesn'=
t follow best-practices. Once it's working, it can be cleaned up.</div><div=
><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Aiden McClelland<br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">bitcoindev+...@googlegro=
ups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-6c68c6554f56n%40googlegroups.com?utm_med=
ium=3Demail&amp;utm_source=3Dfooter" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" dat=
a-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gro=
ups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-6c68c6554f56n%254=
0googlegroups.com?utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dfooter&amp;source=3Dgma=
il&amp;ust=3D1759352727483000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3JlkfL-EBEFYoF-juV1sBs">https=
://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbdab6fa-93bc-44c9-80f0-6c68c6554f5=
6n%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/1A33D206-444A-49E7-B1F1-E9FE5F4E32FB%40drbonez.dev?utm_medium=3D=
email&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/1A3=
3D206-444A-49E7-B1F1-E9FE5F4E32FB%40drbonez.dev</a>.<br />

------GQ46LS9W4CLNE7XRFW0LH0J7UGTMCE--