Return-Path: Received: from silver.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AF1C0859 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25352033D for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:38:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from silver.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQawFMJKSI5t for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:38:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from newmail.dtrt.org (li1228-87.members.linode.com [45.79.129.87]) by silver.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C93611FEED for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from harding by newmail.dtrt.org with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kJd4R-0001ur-Cp; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:38:31 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:37:16 -0400 From: "David A. Harding" To: Jeremy , Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Message-ID: <20200919133716.d5ofags2tprlvpqm@ganymede> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2q76l6a6fd2jepv6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Replacement for RBF and CPFP: Non-Destructive TXID Dependencies for Fee Sponsoring X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:38:34 -0000 --2q76l6a6fd2jepv6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 05:51:39PM -0700, Jeremy via bitcoin-dev wrote: > I'd like to share with you a draft proposal for a mechanism to replace > CPFP and RBF for increasing fees on transactions in the mempool that > should be more robust against attacks. Interesting idea! This is going to take a while to think about, but I have one immediate question: > To prevent garbage sponsors, we also require that: >=20 > 1. The Sponsor's feerate must be greater than the Sponsored's ancestor fe= e rate >=20 > We allow one Sponsor to replace another subject to normal replacement > policies, they are treated as conflicts. Is this in the reference implementation? I don't see it and I'm confused by this text. I think it could mean either: 1. Sponsor Tx A can be replaced by Sponsor Tx B if A and B have at least one input in common (which is part of the "normal replacement policies") 2. A can be replaced by B even if they don't have any inputs in common as long as they do have a Sponsor Vector in common (while otherwise using the "normal replacement policies"). In the first case, I think Mallory can prevent Bob from sponsor-fee-bumping (sponsor-bumping?) his transaction by submitting a sponsor before he does; since Bob has no control over Mallory's inputs, he can't replace Mallory's sponsor tx. In the second case, I think Mallory can use an existing pinning technique to make it expensive for Bob to fee bump. The normal replacement policies require a replacement to pay an absolute higher fee than the original transaction, so Mallory can create a 100,000 vbyte transaction with a single-vector sponsor at the end pointing to Bob's transaction. This sponsor transaction pays the same feerate as Bob's transaction---let's say 50 nBTC/vbyte, so 5 mBTC total fee. In order for Bob to replace Mallory's sponsor transaction with his own sponsor transaction, Bob needs to pay the incremental relay feerate (10 nBTC/vbyte) more, so 6 mBTC total ($66 at $11k/BTC). Thanks, -Dave --2q76l6a6fd2jepv6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEgxUkqkMp0LnoXjCr2dtBqWwiadMFAl9mCYwACgkQ2dtBqWwi adOspg/+JFtCGY4wV9MP4WOoM85Oyzff1VViM6sC+boiTfQJ+vMvxYqiNvJe07lZ G5YGVjs3VwAX8ss7L0PT7uQ9dtYP5PHwJCgY3LUIDEcmbauV9oEiv/1DoNZeq8Kn 79mZ7uHexdpRRXSf1El9muQPVB6wtUrj02IiHR+mEh+/sGcgIpDrP8n3x6XVNkDF sIiBxRvjci0pZREIZ+kXkfpShyl7Tx2pNHUf1eDMPQiJHxgQ6k2RgOcy3Cqjcbh4 P4MYAz2zvUPQU4ZF5/F4MaXundySbQL38FAiQ83hYMXnrTeGMncS2+YofbZLrqp/ a7UG7/79ITcivYBVLd3chg6dS20ba5o6sHqp1IdApz9i1sEYKYBvWIz/8MvqwN81 VXgxnBQIlxUVsb95RW8ei14zG5gpFRqr7RXI8P7XGLvMDQZfi2dGMwcifbdfMcWy mZ7FKRzhsWQeXvmPO9MVW6ZET/bDHo3tOnPrlHBFhi5d5ihWPdyfyvf+om2gDITj Tz/AkGD0M6Z50DOmHG8kgHGIZYbqzsy0hr/hLdKnUmnjBdMY4faMDz49k6FdRq0F /sKEZfixt2CZzDNkQqLEU0k05y9Ri4sqF8Bu6ajI9Y5NsExmBpAp5ryK7dKfhM/w Y+I0P05PE5dJm2gwO9jJSWZE783ftRy5m5oIbmEnmTw/PpMWVDo= =D9WZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2q76l6a6fd2jepv6--