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[135.23.143.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id jg9sm7022638igb.6.2014.08.19.08.30.47 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Richard Moore <me@ricmoo.com> In-Reply-To: <CA+8=xu+KWSF6XYgH-_t87na6M6UOD0CM1su8sizxn5a4b0_Xrw@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:30:45 -0400 Message-Id: <33D4B2E3-DBF0-444E-B76A-765C4C17E964@ricmoo.com> References: <CA+8=xuJ+YDTNjyDW7DvP8KPN_nrFWpE68HvLw6EokFa-B-QGKw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+8=xuKRyO1=bu7cgNGHvtAeqgKBxjTH2uUkb61GdCuEQWEu5A@mail.gmail.com> <0C0EF7F9-DBBA-4872-897D-63CFA3853726@ricmoo.com> <CA+8=xu+KWSF6XYgH-_t87na6M6UOD0CM1su8sizxn5a4b0_Xrw@mail.gmail.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ra=FAl_Mart=EDnez?= <rme@i-rme.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature X-Headers-End: 1XJlp4-0004Je-JV Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: Encrypt bitcoin messages X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development> List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net> List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>, <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:59:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Oh, I see. I misread, thinking you wanted the dev team to have a private = key and share the public key, similar to alerts. But each peer would = have a public/private key pair and use something akin to ECDH for a = symmetric key and transport using a block cipher? How would you share the public key? If I were a man-in-the-middle, I = could intercept the public key, generate my own and pass that along and = then decouple the pipe when the other side shares their public key. Also, you should not ignore your SSH fingerprint, as you exactly open = yourself to mitm attacks. On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:11 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez <rme@i-rme.es> wrote: > Only messages between peers are encrypted, only during transit. >=20 > Before sending a transaction to Node B you use his public key, so Node = B has the key >=20 > El 19/08/2014 17:05, "Richard Moore" <me@ricmoo.com> escribi=F3: > If you encrypt all messages with an asymmetric cipher, how would each = node make use of the blockchain in an encrypted form? Each node would be = able to encrypt the data, but only the Bitcoin Core Dev could decrypt = it? >=20 >=20 > On Aug 19, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez <rme@i-rme.es> wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >> I believe that all comunications should be encrypted by default, no = matter that is public information (tx info), the only exception I would = make would be block packets (to avoid increasing propagation time). >>=20 >> I suggest that Bitcoin Core should generate a public/private key pair = and share the public one with peers. >>=20 >> This could provide privacy and integrity but not autentication. >>=20 >> This way you can impersonate a bitcoin node (active mitm) but you = cant just be passive and record all transactions send or recieved by an = IP address. >>=20 >> Today you can just watch for incoming/outgoing transactions to = determine what tx are created in the Node, when you find one you can see = the Bitcoin address inputs and outputs and track that person's bitcoins. >> As an example, SSH provides this kind of encryption, althogh Bitcoin = Core should ignore fingerprint changes (caused due to reinstalls). >>=20 >> Please feel free to disqus why this is not needed or why you like = this idea. >>=20 >> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- >> _______________________________________________ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development >=20 > .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF= `=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA> >=20 > Richard Moore ~ Founder > Genetic Mistakes Software inc. > phone: (778) 882-6125 > email: ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com > www: http://GeneticMistakes.com >=20 .=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`= =B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA> Richard Moore ~ Founder Genetic Mistakes Software inc. phone: (778) 882-6125 email: ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com www: http://GeneticMistakes.com --Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Diso-8859-1"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Oh, I = see. I misread, thinking you wanted the dev team to have a private key = and share the public key, similar to alerts. But each peer would have a = public/private key pair and use something akin to ECDH for a symmetric = key and transport using a block cipher?<div><br></div><div>How would you = share the public key? If I were a man-in-the-middle, I could intercept = the public key, generate my own and pass that along and then decouple = the pipe when the other side shares their public = key.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, you should not ignore your SSH = fingerprint, as you exactly open yourself to mitm = attacks.<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 19, = 2014, at 11:11 AM, Ra=FAl Mart=EDnez <<a = href=3D"mailto:rme@i-rme.es">rme@i-rme.es</a>> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><p = dir=3D"ltr">Only messages between peers are encrypted, only during = transit.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Before sending a transaction to Node B you = use his public key, so Node B has the key</p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">El 19/08/2014 17:05, "Richard Moore" <<a = href=3D"mailto:me@ricmoo.com">me@ricmoo.com</a>> escribi=F3:<br = type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 = 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">If you encrypt all messages with an = asymmetric cipher, how would each node make use of the blockchain in an = encrypted form? Each node would be able to encrypt the data, but only = the Bitcoin Core Dev could decrypt it?<div> <br></div><div><br><div><div>On Aug 19, 2014, at 5:49 AM, Ra=FAl = Mart=EDnez <<a href=3D"mailto:rme@i-rme.es" = target=3D"_blank">rme@i-rme.es</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><p dir=3D"ltr">Hi,<br> I believe that all comunications should be encrypted by default, no = matter that is public information (tx info), the only exception I would = make would be block packets (to avoid increasing propagation = time).</p><p dir=3D"ltr"> I suggest that Bitcoin Core should generate a public/private key pair = and share the public one with peers.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">This could = provide privacy and integrity but not autentication.</p><p = dir=3D"ltr">This way you can impersonate a bitcoin node (active mitm) = but you cant just be passive and record all transactions send or = recieved by an IP address.</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Today you can just watch = for incoming/outgoing transactions to determine what tx are created in = the Node, when you find one you can see the Bitcoin address inputs and = outputs and track that person's bitcoins.<br> </p><p dir=3D"ltr">As an example, SSH provides this kind of encryption, = althogh Bitcoin Core should ignore fingerprint changes (caused due to = reinstalls).</p><p dir=3D"ltr">Please feel free to disqus why this is = not needed or why you like this idea.</p> = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----<br>_______________________________________________<br>Bitcoin-develop= ment mailing list<br><a = href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" = target=3D"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br> <a = href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" = target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-dev= elopment</a><br></blockquote></div><br><div> <span style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; = font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: = 0px;">.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4= =AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA><br> <br>Richard Moore ~ Founder<br>Genetic Mistakes Software inc.<br>phone: = (778) 882-6125<br>email: <a = href=3D"mailto:ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com" = target=3D"_blank">ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com</a><br>www: <a = href=3D"http://geneticmistakes.com/" = target=3D"_blank">http://GeneticMistakes.com</a></span> </div> <br></div></div></blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = ">.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF= `=B7.=B8=B8.=B7=B4=AF`=B7.=B8><(((=BA><br><br>Richard Moore ~ = Founder<br>Genetic Mistakes Software inc.<br>phone: (778) = 882-6125<br>email: <a = href=3D"mailto:ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com">ricmoo@geneticmistakes.com</a><= br>www: <a = href=3D"http://GeneticMistakes.com/">http://GeneticMistakes.com</a></span>= </div> <br></div></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_8409A5BC-9426-41D2-A8B5-A93C3BA54565--