To: James MacWhyte <macwhyte@gmail.com>
References: <68330522-7e7c-c3b4-99a9-1c68ddb56f23@gmail.com>
	<f2d73a92-e1c5-9072-e255-fa012a9f9d1b@satoshilabs.com>
	<db184306-7ec0-322e-5637-7889b51f50bf@gmail.com>
	<CAH+Axy6dKDOkE6cQYZUusTUxxOSwWchOWxYh6ZkhnOgXuELaYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<743fb106-977e-1f34-47af-9fb3b8621e72@gmail.com>
	<CAH+Axy7v=26P8=CJPUqymKOcromGz+zYZ2cb2KaASgXNPpE2tQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <c91cd61b-3ec5-6c7a-c7e3-7ceb48539625@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 12:04:18 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <CAH+Axy7v=26P8=CJPUqymKOcromGz+zYZ2cb2KaASgXNPpE2tQ@mail.gmail.com>
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	boundary="------------80CE2C045D11BB10DE780A7D"
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Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP39 seeds
Precedence: list

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Le 26/12/2018 à 19:54, James MacWhyte a écrit :
>
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 11:33 AM Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com
> <mailto:vitteaymeric@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     so, even with a tool like yours, they can be misleaded, for
>     example trying a few words to replace the missing/incorrect one,
>     get a valid seed and stay stuck with it forever trying to play
>     with BIP44/49 to find their keys
>
>
> Just a small detail, but my tool actually looks up all the possible
> combinations and then finds which one has been used before by looking
> for past transactions on the blockchain. Therefore, it won't tell you
> your phrase is correct unless it is a phrase that has actually been
> used before (preventing what you described).

I saw that your tool was querying blockchain.info, but it cannot guess
what derivation path was used and if it is a standard one what addresses
were used, and even if successful it works only for bitcoin (so maybe it
should just output the ~1500 possible phrases and/or xprv, and be
completely offline, this is still doable for people)

>
> Using some algorithm to take some input and generate a bip39 phrase
> that you can use with any bip39 wallet sounds perfectly reasonable.

I forgot to mention that this can help also solving the "what if
something happens to me" case giving to the family the seed and the
parameter(s) for the derivation path, or an easy way to find it (better
than something like: remind this passphrase, take the sha256 of it, then
use some other stuff to find the encryption algo, take n bytes of the
hash, use it to decode my wallet or my seed... and then everybody
looking at you like crazy)


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    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 26/12/2018 à 19:54, James MacWhyte a
      écrit :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH+Axy7v=26P8=CJPUqymKOcromGz+zYZ2cb2KaASgXNPpE2tQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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        <div>
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
            data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr">On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 11:33 AM Aymeric Vitte
            &lt;<a href="mailto:vitteaymeric@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">vitteaymeric@gmail.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
              <p>so, even with a tool like yours, they can be misleaded,
                for example trying a few words to replace the
                missing/incorrect one, get a valid seed and stay stuck
                with it forever trying to play with BIP44/49 to find
                their keys<br>
              </p>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Just a small detail, but my tool actually looks up all
            the possible combinations and then finds which one has been
            used before by looking for past transactions on the
            blockchain. Therefore, it won't tell you your phrase is
            correct unless it is a phrase that has actually been used
            before (preventing what you described).</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I saw that your tool was querying blockchain.info, but it cannot
      guess what derivation path was used and if it is a standard one
      what addresses were used, and even if successful it works only for
      bitcoin (so maybe it should just output the ~1500 possible phrases
      and/or xprv, and be completely offline, this is still doable for
      people)</p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH+Axy7v=26P8=CJPUqymKOcromGz+zYZ2cb2KaASgXNPpE2tQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Using some algorithm to take some input and generate a
            bip39 phrase that you can use with any bip39 wallet sounds
            perfectly reasonable.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>I forgot to mention that this can help also solving the "what if
      something happens to me" case giving to the family the seed and
      the parameter(s) for the derivation path, or an easy way to find
      it (better than something like: remind this passphrase, take the
      sha256 of it, then use some other stuff to find the encryption
      algo, take n bytes of the hash, use it to decode my wallet or my
      seed... and then everybody looking at you like crazy)<br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

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