Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191] helo=mx.sourceforge.net) by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1VZPcy-0007v1-H1 for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:27:24 +0000 X-ACL-Warn: Received: from mail-vb0-f52.google.com ([209.85.212.52]) by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) id 1VZPcx-00032K-4i for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:27:24 +0000 Received: by mail-vb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f13so1771518vbg.11 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:27:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=E3ybXPPXBxamnE/wCeWNd5bRTaFrD0f43KANYSnXpvU=; b=H/UHysCzEMzp8CxhiKSycBVJ14n6qrHwvUdkgfIdesA7TqzZXWzRjxdvmT67JMUDzR HlvOOJbATF3fZs5M2g6l9hKs6erpNC05yMn1++QqHkZ2B4i+x5xxMv//jjBCsrIAR7aS AMdJgKAlCmHwt2SAW1AQ+GA7PkGV0TPCaMJIfGEnW5xZrJGNY9zKbTsGrlAg//t5Gtm/ 3IZWF6MHVS1FJuIYZBovlTdzGCFYA+N8uKXArEkHZllI9SRwXAAQ8QeR1hLuLQD+ki1u hFKuBFqr4kq5S4YXozF26hKaKltpBEX5B7fSZSkYDAvZU1bAOZA7LJsVltlXGugJNi6S J23g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmlJKwhIzqdzxQVqNZ+FxyjU2TKTzcuOgRx9t0CFkbzv/RnmgxCH78aa/cQT3FLYRKVcjGj X-Received: by 10.52.163.165 with SMTP id yj5mr918555vdb.42.1382639237428; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:27:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: marek@palatinus.cz Received: by 10.59.1.2 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:26:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <15F27A88-53BF-4149-A8FF-282350312B92@godofgod.co.uk> References: <796AC330-56EF-43D2-9935-5409824A4F33@godofgod.co.uk> <0F445FFE-FA1A-4A64-9A28-C734E744B5F7@godofgod.co.uk> <5231AF5E.8080903@gk2.sk> <15F27A88-53BF-4149-A8FF-282350312B92@godofgod.co.uk> From: slush Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 20:26:47 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8HBc_V6FeLVBPZX0hcsd7NFcOfM Message-ID: To: Matthew Mitchell Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c25004998eec04e980c8c7 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: doubleclick.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (slush[at]centrum.cz) 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Headers-End: 1VZPcx-00032K-4i Cc: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP0039 Mnemonic code for generating deterministic keys X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 18:27:24 -0000 --001a11c25004998eec04e980c8c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We've reflected many comments about BIP39 wordlist from the community and I think the wordlist is much better now. Specifically we removed many of theoretically offensive words as well as we implemented algorithm for detecting words with similar characters (cat/eat) and we resolved these duplicities. I'm now quite happy with the wordlist and I want to ask you for next (final?) round of comments. From other features, we added password protection of seed and seed hardening (against bruteforcing) using Rijndael cipher. This has been chosen because its blocksize can be 128, 192 or 256 bits, so it fits length of desired seeds. Also there are Rijndael implementations in every language. Btw password protection has one interesting feature - plausible deniability. It allows user to have one mnemonic and by using it with different passwords, it will generate different BIP32 wallets.... (wink wink) I want to be pretty clear that we need to close this topic somehow, because we want to use such algorithm in Trezor (which deadline is coming quick) and also other wallet developers want to implement such algorithm into clients to be compatible with Trezor. There were quite strict requirements for such algorithm (like the possibility to convert mnemonic to seed as well as seed to mnemonic) and I think we found a good solution. I'm wildly asking you for constructive comments, but saying "it's a crap, I don't like it" won't help anything. Thanks, slush On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Matthew Mitchell < matthewmitchell@godofgod.co.uk> wrote: > I removed some more but I haven't added enough back in. It was taking far > longer than expected so I gave up, but maybe someone else can try to add > some more: > > > https://github.com/MatthewLM/python-mnemonic/blob/master/mnemonic/wordlist/english.txt > > On 12 Sep 2013, at 13:11, Pavol Rusnak wrote: > > > On 10/09/13 23:03, Matthew Mitchell wrote: > >> Maybe it would have been better without the aggressive words? > > > > I revisited the wordlist and replaced around 67 words that can be > > found offensive in some context. > > > > -- > > Best Regards / S pozdravom, > > > > Pavol Rusnak > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: > > 1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT > > 2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT > > 3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=51271111&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Bitcoin-development mailing list > > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments: > 1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT > 2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT > 3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=51271111&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > --001a11c25004998eec04e980c8c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We've reflected many comments about BIP39 wordlist fro= m the community and I think the wordlist is much better now. Specifically w= e removed many of theoretically offensive words as well as we implemented a= lgorithm for detecting words with similar characters (cat/eat) and we resol= ved these duplicities. I'm now quite happy with the wordlist and I want= to ask you for next (final?) round of comments.

From other features, we added password protection of seed an= d seed hardening (against bruteforcing) using Rijndael cipher. This has bee= n chosen because its blocksize can be 128, 192 or 256 bits, so it fits leng= th of desired seeds. Also there are Rijndael implementations in every langu= age. Btw password protection has one interesting feature - plausible deniab= ility. It allows user to have one mnemonic and by using it with different p= asswords, it will generate different BIP32 wallets.... (wink wink)

I want to be pretty clear that we need to close t= his topic somehow, because we want to use such algorithm in Trezor (which d= eadline is coming quick) and also other wallet developers want to implement= such algorithm into clients to be compatible with Trezor. There were quite= strict requirements for such algorithm (like the possibility to convert mn= emonic to seed as well as seed to mnemonic) and I think we found a good sol= ution. I'm wildly asking you for constructive comments, but saying &quo= t;it's a crap, I don't like it" won't help anything.

Thanks,
slush


On Thu, Sep 12,= 2013 at 6:02 PM, Matthew Mitchell <matthewmitchell@godofgod.= co.uk> wrote:
I removed some more but I haven't added = enough back in. It was taking far longer than expected so I gave up, but ma= ybe someone else can try to add some more:

https://github.com/MatthewLM/pyth= on-mnemonic/blob/master/mnemonic/wordlist/english.txt

On 12 Sep 2013, at 13:11, Pavol Rusnak <= stick@gk2.sk> wrote:

> On 10/09/13 23:03, Matthew Mitchell wrote:
>> Maybe it would have been better without the aggressive words?
>
> I revisited the wordlist and replaced around 67 words that can be
> found offensive in some context.
>
> --
> Best Regards / S pozdravom,
>
> Pavol Rusnak <stick@gk2.sk><= br> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= --------
> How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
> 1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT > 2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT
> 3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks<= br> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net= /gampad/clk?id=3D51271111&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-d= evelopment@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco= in-development


-----------------------------------------------------------= -------------------
How ServiceNow helps IT people transform IT departments:
1. Consolidate legacy IT systems to a single system of record for IT
2. Standardize and globalize service processes across IT
3. Implement zero-touch automation to replace manual, redundant tasks
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam= pad/clk?id=3D51271111&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk
___________________= ____________________________
Bitcoin-development mailing list
Bitcoin-develo= pment@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de= velopment


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