Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2022 19:18:16 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <Y1HXOJhL3NFSG2q/@petertodd.org>
References: <Y0ZTtlRSBihNN9+v@erisian.com.au>
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 <Y0d/e2sEoNRgD7KP@erisian.com.au> <Y0u8Ee2Ao375z8UD@erisian.com.au>
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In-Reply-To: <Y05PHYtrNmA0vg7U@erisian.com.au>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Opt-in full-RBF] Zero-conf apps in immediate
 danger
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On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 05:00:45PM +1000, Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev wro=
te:
> For what it's worth, my guess is that releasing core with full rbf
> support and having you and Murch and others advocating for people to
> try it out, will mean that full RBF is usable on mainnet within two
> or three months, supported by perhaps 5%-20% hashpower, but probably
> still requiring special effort to actually find a peer that can relay
> full rbf txs to that hashpower (probably doing an addnode, despite the
> privacy implications). Even if that happens, I'm not super confident
> that it would mean people would actively steal from zeroconf businesses
> in any volume, though. It's not something I'd risk happening to me,
> but accepting zeroconf from strangers isn't something I'd risk anyway.

FWIW I'm not aware of any zeroconf accepting businesses where exploiting do=
uble
spends can be done without significant legal risk. Bitrefill has significant
legal risk, because pretty much everything you buy with Bitrefill can be tr=
aced
to your real world identity. ATMs have less risk. But I haven't seen an ATM
that accepts BTC without a confirmation in many years. Nor have I found a
non-KYC/AML in-person currency exchange service that would accept funds wit=
hout a
confirmation (yes, I've had to wait 30 mins to get my cash before!). And all
the anonymous crypto-exchange websites like FixedFloat require a confirmati=
on.

I have found AML/KYC in-person currency exchange services that would accept
zero conf. But of course, they had sufficient details on me to just call the
police if I double-spent them.

In practice, there are very few people who are actually affected by zeroconf
going away.

--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

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