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[192.3.11.21]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h30-20020a05660208de00b007d0cd1d9ae1si276765ioz.2.2024.04.02.08.39.45 for ; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) client-ip=192.3.11.21; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [172.58.160.235]) (Authenticated sender: luke-jr) by zinan.dashjr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C774B2219F0; Tue, 2 Apr 2024 15:39:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Hashcash: 1:23:240402:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com::i=5uy6agwI1qhilc:vEDx X-Hashcash: 1:23:240402:gloria@brink.dev::ujUghmt+GlznEd/L:q4N Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 09:39:25 -0600 From: Luke Dashjr To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com, Gloria Zhao , Bitcoin Development Mailing List Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com> <52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef@murch.one> <84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com> <9baa15e4-062d-478f-8c87-8ff19ab79989@murch.one> <4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com> <6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542@mattcorallo.com> <77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1@dtrt.org> <16a728e9-e987-4e7b-bace-2629143d173fn@googlegroups.com> <64FDB7CF-CBFB-416D-8BCF-2DC50CD2E4B7@dashjr.org> Message-ID: <847D8B06-9F61-4515-B6B2-6093E7F7A80D@dashjr.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----MPPR57GVYMXD8IFGOQT5GBOIK9CB1V Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Original-Sender: luke@dashjr.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@dashjr.org header.s=zinan header.b=nMBV9qIP; spf=pass (google.com: domain of luke@dashjr.org designates 192.3.11.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=luke@dashjr.org; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=dashjr.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) ------MPPR57GVYMXD8IFGOQT5GBOIK9CB1V Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On the timeline, there has already been a very reasonable objection raised = by Antoine. I'm also unlikely to be available around that time (and through= the weekend) to actually do it. So it'll need to be next week at the earli= est, but I don't see a problem with closer to May if that's important to so= me. Luke On April 2, 2024 9:13:46 AM CST, Gloria Zhao wrote: >> If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this= =20 >> decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any=20 >> candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any=20 >> candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new=20 >> editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). > >Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward. > >Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding Murch, Ruben, and=20 >Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated through years of=20 >experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack exchange,= =20 >Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in technical=20 >documentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this rol= e. > >Best, >Gloria > >On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wrote: > >> No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to mor= e=20 >> BIP editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If y= our=20 >> goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhap= s=20 >> reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivia= l=20 >> and not a concern. >> >> It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the need for more BIP= =20 >> editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper procedures=20 >> followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP process, th= at=20 >> is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fiat of a ne= w=20 >> editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP process as = it=20 >> currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted. >> >> Luke >> >> >> On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 wrote: >> >>> > Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >>> > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn'= t >>> > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >>> >>> Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recentl= y=20 >>> and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers t= o=20 >>> some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP sh= ould=20 >>> be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be follo= wed=20 >>> by new BIP editors. >>> >>> > For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >>> > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news c= ame >>> > out, and were only returned several months later once verified >>> > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >>> > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >>> >>> Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this. >>> >>> [0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280 >>> >>> /dev/fd0 >>> floppy disk guy >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16=E2=80=AFAM UTC Ava Chow wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote:=20 >>>> > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss so= me=20 >>>> > things about the process itself:=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to= =20 >>>> > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the=20 >>>> > bitco...@lists.linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a=20 >>>> > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please= =20 >>>> open=20 >>>> > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here."= =20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor= =20 >>>> > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they= =20 >>>> > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" b= y=20 >>>> > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors.=20 >>>> >>>> If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list=20 >>>> first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors= =20 >>>> wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is=20 >>>> strictly enforced anyways.=20 >>>> >>>> Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or=20 >>>> issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there.= =20 >>>> The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they= =20 >>>> could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than wh= at=20 >>>> already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better= =20 >>>> because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the= =20 >>>> repo is not at the whim of a single person.=20 >>>> >>>> > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs?=20 >>>> >>>> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on=20 >>>> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't= =20 >>>> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.=20 >>>> >>>> > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere= =20 >>>> > like bitcoin core?=20 >>>> >>>> I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably= =20 >>>> there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's= =20 >>>> just like any other repo on GitHub.=20 >>>> >>>> > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation= =20 >>>> do=20 >>>> > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the=20 >>>> process=20 >>>> > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work?=20 >>>> >>>> The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually= =20 >>>> active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is= =20 >>>> presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write= =20 >>>> BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with t= he=20 >>>> root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The=20 >>>> process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is=20 >>>> discussion about those people, and eventually some are added.=20 >>>> >>>> As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so= =20 >>>> the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a= =20 >>>> similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raisin= g=20 >>>> a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some othe= r=20 >>>> place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether= =20 >>>> or not to remove them.=20 >>>> >>>> There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may= =20 >>>> take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is on= ly=20 >>>> done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something=20 >>>> malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity th= at=20 >>>> it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked -= =20 >>>> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news ca= me=20 >>>> out, and were only returned several months later once verified=20 >>>> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his= =20 >>>> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised.=20 >>>> >>>> Ava=20 >>>> >>>> >=20 >>>> > /dev/fd0=20 >>>> > floppy disk guy=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC David A. Harding = wrote:=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:=20 >>>> > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like=20 >>>> > Bob!".=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to = be=20 >>>> > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote= =20 >>>> > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris=20 >>>> Stewart[3],=20 >>>> > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon=20 >>>> > Black[11],=20 >>>> > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16]= =20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michae= l=20 >>>> > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John= =20 >>>> > Carvalho[16]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],=20 >>>> > /dev/fd0[5][7],=20 >>>> > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16= ]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], Jo= hn=20 >>>> > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine=20 >>>> > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan= =20 >>>> > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12= ],=20 >>>> > Ava Chow[14]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - Michael Folkson*=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev= =20 >>>> > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoin= e=20 >>>> > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above=20 >>>> > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below a= s:=20 >>>> > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure=20 >>>> > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen=20 >>>> > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack=20 >>>> > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef=20 >>>> > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus=20 >>>> > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have = a=20 >>>> > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are=20 >>>> > far-along=20 >>>> > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments)= .=20 >>>> I=20 >>>> > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it=20 >>>> > demonstrates=20 >>>> > familiarity with the process.=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with= =20 >>>> > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully= =20 >>>> > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justificatio= n=20 >>>> > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a=20 >>>> > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo= =20 >>>> > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draf= t=20 >>>> > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 30= 0=20 >>>> > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed= =20 >>>> > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases=20 >>>> > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the=20 >>>> > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask h= im=20 >>>> > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already=20 >>>> doing,=20 >>>> > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > -Dave=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > [1]=20 >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/= =20 >>>> > >>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [2]=20 >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/= =20 >>>> > >>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [3]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [4]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [5]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [6]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [7]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [8]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEa= zRA5...@mail.gmail.com/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEa= zRA5...@mail.gmail.com/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/=20 >>>> > >>> >=20 >>>> > [10]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com= /=20 >>>> >>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/=20 >>>> > =20 >>>> > [12]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gma= il.com/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gma= il.com/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [13]=20 >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/=20 >>>> > >>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [14]=20 >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/= =20 >>>> > >>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [15]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsu= izh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@p= rotonmail.com/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsu= izh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@p= rotonmail.com/>=20 >>>> >>>> > [16]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.co= m/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> > [17]=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd= 9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/=20 >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd= 9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> >>>> >=20 >>>> > --=20 >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= =20 >>>> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.=20 >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, se= nd=20 >>>> > an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com=20 >>>> > .=20 >>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9= b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com=20 >>>> < >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9= b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.=20 >>>> >>>> >>>> > >--=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid= /bitcoindev/a18850ec-4659-4683-8e50-9758a7f431can%40googlegroups.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= bitcoindev/847D8B06-9F61-4515-B6B2-6093E7F7A80D%40dashjr.org. ------MPPR57GVYMXD8IFGOQT5GBOIK9CB1V Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the timeline, there has alrea= dy been a very reasonable objection raised by Antoine. I'm also unlikely to= be available around that time (and through the weekend) to actually do it.= So it'll need to be next week at the earliest, but I don't see a problem w= ith closer to May if that's important to some.

Luke

On April 2, 2024 9:13:46 AM C= ST, Gloria Zhao <gloria@brink.dev> wrote:
> If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this= =20
> decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against an= y=20
> candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If an= y=20
> candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as = new=20
> editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th).
=

Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward.

Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding Murch, R= uben, and Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated through years = of experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack exchang= e, Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in technical docu= mentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this role.

Best,
Gloria

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tuesday= , April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wrote:
No,= there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to more BIP = editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If your goa= l is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhaps reas= onable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivial and n= ot a concern.

It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the n= eed for more BIP editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper= procedures followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP pr= ocess, that is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fia= t of a new editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP pro= cess as it currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted.

Lu= ke


On = April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 <alice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on
> li= terally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't
>= ; actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.

Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate re= cently and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign number= s to some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP s= hould be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be fol= lowed by new BIP editors.

> For example, this w= as done when Luke was hacked -
> all of his permissions were immedi= ately removed as soon as the news came
> out, and were only returned = several months later once verified
> communication with Luke were est= ablished and he was certain that his
> GitHub account was no longer (= at risk of being) compromised.

Thanks for sharing. I was= n't aware of this.


/dev/fd0
flo= ppy disk guy

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16=E2=80=AFAM UTC = Ava Chow wrote:


On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote:
> I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss = some=20
> things about the process itself:
>=20
> 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing = to=20
> submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the=20
> bitco...@lists.linuxfoundation.org mailing= list (do not assign a=20
> number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, pleas= e open=20
> a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here= ."
>=20
> If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor= =20
> someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because th= ey=20
> will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin"= by=20
> being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors.

If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list=20
first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors=20
wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is=20
strictly enforced anyways.

Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or=20
issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there.= =20
The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they=20
could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than wha= t=20
already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better=20
because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the= =20
repo is not at the whim of a single person.

> 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs?

Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on=20
literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't= =20
actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.

> 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhe= re=20
> like bitcoin core?

I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably=20
there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's=20
just like any other repo on GitHub.

> 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situati= on do=20
> we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the p= rocess=20
> to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work?

The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually= =20
active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is= =20
presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write=20
BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with th= e=20
root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The=20
process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is=20
discussion about those people, and eventually some are added.

As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so= =20
the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a=20
similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising= =20
a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other= =20
place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether= =20
or not to remove them.

There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may= =20
take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is onl= y=20
done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something=20
malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity tha= t=20
it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked -= =20
all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news cam= e=20
out, and were only returned several months later once verified=20
communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his=20
GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised.

Ava

>=20
> /dev/fd0
> floppy disk guy
>=20
> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC David A. Hardin= g wrote:
>=20
> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "= I like
> Bob!".
>=20
> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appea= rs to be
> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks d= enote
> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
>=20
> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris St= ewart[3],
> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> Black[11],
> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carval= ho[16]
>=20
> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], = Michael
> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15],= John
> Carvalho[16]
>=20
> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carva= lho[16]
>=20
> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[= 3], John
> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>=20
> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Ke= agan
> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Ri= ard[12],
> Ava Chow[14]
>=20
> - Michael Folkson*
>=20
> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "n= on-dev
> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and = Antoine
> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>=20
> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the abo= ve
> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed b= elow as:
> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
>=20
> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>=20
> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to= have a
> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
> far-along
> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Pay= ments). I
> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> demonstrates
> familiarity with the process.
>=20
> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above = with
> multiple recommendations from other community participants are= fully
> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justif= ication
> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Co= rallo
> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through = a draft
> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of = all 300
> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has re= viewed
> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of = the
> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd= ask him
> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's alrea= dy doing,
> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>=20
> -Dave
>=20
> [1]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/b= itcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.c= om/>
> [2]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoi= ndev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> [3]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <htt= ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/&g= t;
> [4]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <http= s://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>= ;
> [5]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <htt= ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/&g= t;
> [6]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <htt= ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/&g= t;
> [7]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <htt= ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/&g= t;
> [8]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7Y= RS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3Dwr= uqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePP= vbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitco= indev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> [10]
> https://gnusha.org= /pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha= .org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>
> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu3= 2FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32= FXzqqg69V@console/>
> [12]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.c= om/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoi= ndev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> [13]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoind= ev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/&g= t;
> [14]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/b= itcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.c= om/>
> [15]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSB= Xsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo= =3D@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85km= IBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXO= H4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@protonmail.com/>
> [16]
> https://gnusha.= org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <htt= ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/&g= t;
> [17]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9= mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo= 76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
>=20
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= =20
> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, = send=20
> an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com=20
> <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com= >.
> To view this discussion on the web visit=20
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/b= itcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com <= https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/b= itcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medi= um=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.

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------MPPR57GVYMXD8IFGOQT5GBOIK9CB1V--