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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gloria Zhao <gloria@brink.dev>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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In-Reply-To: <64FDB7CF-CBFB-416D-8BCF-2DC50CD2E4B7@dashjr.org>
References: <2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com>
 <d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com>
 <52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef@murch.one>
 <84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com>
 <9baa15e4-062d-478f-8c87-8ff19ab79989@murch.one>
 <4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com>
 <6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542@mattcorallo.com>
 <77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1@dtrt.org>
 <cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n@googlegroups.com>
 <f14cf0de-20f2-4786-bb92-d686a73c1218@achow101.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
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> If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this=20
> decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any=20
> candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any=20
> candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new=20
> editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th).

Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward.

Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding Murch, Ruben, and=20
Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated through years of=20
experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack exchange,=
=20
Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in technical=20
documentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this role=
.

Best,
Gloria

On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wrote:

> No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to more=
=20
> BIP editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If yo=
ur=20
> goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhaps=
=20
> reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivial=
=20
> and not a concern.
>
> It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the need for more BIP=20
> editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper procedures=20
> followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP process, tha=
t=20
> is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fiat of a new=
=20
> editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP process as i=
t=20
> currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted.
>
> Luke
>
>
> On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 <alice...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >  Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on
>> > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't
>> > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.
>>
>> Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recently=
=20
>> and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers to=
=20
>> some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP sho=
uld=20
>> be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be follow=
ed=20
>> by new BIP editors.
>>
>> > For example, this was done when Luke was hacked -
>> > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news ca=
me
>> > out, and were only returned several months later once verified
>> > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his
>> > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised.
>>
>> Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this.
>>
>> [0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280
>>
>> /dev/fd0
>> floppy disk guy
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16=E2=80=AFAM UTC Ava Chow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote:=20
>>> > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss som=
e=20
>>> > things about the process itself:=20
>>> >=20
>>> > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to=
=20
>>> > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the=20
>>> > bitco...@lists.linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a=20
>>> > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please=
=20
>>> open=20
>>> > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here."=
=20
>>> >=20
>>> > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor=20
>>> > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they=
=20
>>> > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by=
=20
>>> > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors.=20
>>>
>>> If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list=20
>>> first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors=20
>>> wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is=20
>>> strictly enforced anyways.=20
>>>
>>> Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or=20
>>> issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there.=
=20
>>> The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they=20
>>> could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than wha=
t=20
>>> already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better=20
>>> because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the=
=20
>>> repo is not at the whim of a single person.=20
>>>
>>> > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs?=20
>>>
>>> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on=20
>>> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't=
=20
>>> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.=20
>>>
>>> > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere=
=20
>>> > like bitcoin core?=20
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably=20
>>> there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's=20
>>> just like any other repo on GitHub.=20
>>>
>>> > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation=
=20
>>> do=20
>>> > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the=20
>>> process=20
>>> > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work?=20
>>>
>>> The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually=
=20
>>> active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is=
=20
>>> presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write=20
>>> BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with th=
e=20
>>> root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The=20
>>> process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is=20
>>> discussion about those people, and eventually some are added.=20
>>>
>>> As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so=
=20
>>> the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a=20
>>> similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising=
=20
>>> a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other=
=20
>>> place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether=
=20
>>> or not to remove them.=20
>>>
>>> There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may=
=20
>>> take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is onl=
y=20
>>> done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something=20
>>> malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity tha=
t=20
>>> it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked -=
=20
>>> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news cam=
e=20
>>> out, and were only returned several months later once verified=20
>>> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his=20
>>> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised.=20
>>>
>>> Ava=20
>>>
>>> >=20
>>> > /dev/fd0=20
>>> > floppy disk guy=20
>>> >=20
>>> > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC David A. Harding w=
rote:=20
>>> >=20
>>> > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:=20
>>> > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like=20
>>> > Bob!".=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to b=
e=20
>>> > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote=
=20
>>> > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris=20
>>> Stewart[3],=20
>>> > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon=20
>>> > Black[11],=20
>>> > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16]=
=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael=
=20
>>> > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John=
=20
>>> > Carvalho[16]=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],=20
>>> > /dev/fd0[5][7],=20
>>> > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16]=
=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], Joh=
n=20
>>> > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine=20
>>> > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan=20
>>> > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12]=
,=20
>>> > Ava Chow[14]=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - Michael Folkson*=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev=
=20
>>> > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine=
=20
>>> > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".=20
>>> >=20
>>> > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above=20
>>> > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as=
:=20
>>> > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).=20
>>> >=20
>>> > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure=20
>>> > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen=20
>>> > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack=20
>>> > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef=20
>>> > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus=20
>>> > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson=20
>>> >=20
>>> > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a=
=20
>>> > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are=20
>>> > far-along=20
>>> > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments).=
=20
>>> I=20
>>> > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it=20
>>> > demonstrates=20
>>> > familiarity with the process.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with=20
>>> > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully=
=20
>>> > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification=
=20
>>> > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a=20
>>> > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo=
=20
>>> > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft=
=20
>>> > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300=
=20
>>> > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed=
=20
>>> > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases=20
>>> > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the=20
>>> > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask hi=
m=20
>>> > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already=20
>>> doing,=20
>>> > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.=20
>>> >=20
>>> > -Dave=20
>>> >=20
>>> > [1]=20
>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/=
=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/=
=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@=
achow101.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [2]=20
>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/=
=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@=
dashjr.org/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [3]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n=
@googlegroups.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [4]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@=
netpurgatory.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [5]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn=
@googlegroups.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [6]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n=
@googlegroups.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [7]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n=
@googlegroups.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [8]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEaz=
RA5...@mail.gmail.com/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEaz=
RA5...@mail.gmail.com/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEa=
zRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>=20
>>> > [10]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/=
=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@=
mattcorallo.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>=20
>>> > [12]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmai=
l.com/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmai=
l.com/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKS=
Xpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [13]=20
>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@=
murch.one/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [14]=20
>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/=
=20
>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/=
=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@=
achow101.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [15]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsui=
zh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@pr=
otonmail.com/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsui=
zh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=3D@pr=
otonmail.com/>=20
>>>
>>> > [16]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com=
/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n=
@googlegroups.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> > [17]=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9=
Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/=20
>>> <
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd9=
Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/=20
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU=3D=3DYJMvd=
9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>=20
>>>
>>> >=20
>>> > --=20
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20
>>> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.=20
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen=
d=20
>>> > an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com=20
>>> > <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups.com>.=20
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit=20
>>> >=20
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b=
1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com=20
>>> <
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b=
1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.=20
>>>
>>>
>>>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
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&gt; If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this=
=20
<br />&gt; decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against =
any=20
<br />&gt; candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If =
any=20
<br />&gt; candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added a=
s new=20
<br />&gt; editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th).<b=
r /><div><br /></div><div>Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward.</di=
v><div><br /></div><div>Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding =
Murch, Ruben, and Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated throug=
h years of experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack=
 exchange, Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in techni=
cal documentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this =
role.<br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Best,</div><div>Gloria<br /></div><d=
iv><br /></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_=
attr">On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58=E2=80=AFPM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wro=
te:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8e=
x; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with re=
gard to more BIP editors is that I don&#39;t have time to keep up with it b=
y myself. If your goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (as=
ide from perhaps reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignme=
nts are trivial and not a concern.<br><br>It seems there&#39;s an attempt t=
o take advantage of the need for more BIP editors to change or bypass the B=
IP process without proper procedures followed. While there may be arguments=
 for improving the BIP process, that is unrelated and would need to go thro=
ugh a BIP, not simply fiat of a new editor. Any potential new editor will n=
eed to follow the BIP process as it currently is defined until such a new B=
IP is accepted.<br><br>Luke</div></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"auto">On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 &lt;<a hre=
f data-email-masked rel=3D"nofollow">alice...@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt;=C2=A0

Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on<br>&gt; li=
terally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn&#39;t<br=
>&gt; actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.<div><b=
r></div><div>Process followed to assign the number started this whole debat=
e recently and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign nu=
mbers to some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a B=
IP should be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be=
 followed by new BIP editors.</div><div><br></div><div>&gt; For example, th=
is was done when Luke was hacked -</div>&gt; all of his permissions were im=
mediately removed as soon as the news came<br>&gt; out, and were only retur=
ned several months later once verified<br>&gt; communication with Luke were=
 established and he was certain that his<br>&gt; GitHub account was no long=
er (at risk of being) compromised.<div><br></div><div>Thanks for sharing. I=
 wasn&#39;t aware of this.<br><div><br></div><div>[0]:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dht=
tps://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=
=3D1712155859865000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw00y5c6ekPt8Os6yTQ0tWgn">https://x.com/k=
anzure/status/1752663903715168280</a></div><div><br></div><div>/dev/fd0</di=
v><div>floppy disk guy<br><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16=E2=80=
=AFAM UTC Ava Chow wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:=
1ex">
<br>
<br>On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote:
<br>&gt; I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss =
some=20
<br>&gt; things about the process itself:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: &quot;People wis=
hing to=20
<br>&gt; submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the=20
<br>&gt; <a rel=3D"nofollow">bitco...@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a> mailing=
 list (do not assign a=20
<br>&gt; number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, pleas=
e open=20
<br>&gt; a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here=
.&quot;
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor=
=20
<br>&gt; someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because th=
ey=20
<br>&gt; will have control over the whole improvement process for &quot;bit=
coin&quot; by=20
<br>&gt; being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors.
<br>
<br>If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list=20
<br>first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors=20
<br>wouldn&#39;t change that. It&#39;s not clear to me that this requiremen=
t is=20
<br>strictly enforced anyways.
<br>
<br>Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or=20
<br>issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there.=
=20
<br>The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they=20
<br>could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that&#39;s no different than=
 what=20
<br>already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better=20
<br>because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the=
=20
<br>repo is not at the whim of a single person.
<br>
<br>&gt; 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs?
<br>
<br>Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on=20
<br>literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn&#3=
9;t=20
<br>actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions.
<br>
<br>&gt; 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhe=
re=20
<br>&gt; like bitcoin core?
<br>
<br>I&#39;m not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumabl=
y=20
<br>there already are, and if there aren&#39;t, you can do it yourself. It&=
#39;s=20
<br>just like any other repo on GitHub.
<br>
<br>&gt; 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situati=
on do=20
<br>&gt; we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the p=
rocess=20
<br>&gt; to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work?
<br>
<br>The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually=
=20
<br>active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is=
=20
<br>presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write=20
<br>BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with th=
e=20
<br>root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The=20
<br>process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is=20
<br>discussion about those people, and eventually some are added.
<br>
<br>As for removal, this has not been something we&#39;ve ever done before,=
 so=20
<br>the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a=20
<br>similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising=
=20
<br>a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other=
=20
<br>place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether=
=20
<br>or not to remove them.
<br>
<br>There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may=
=20
<br>take emergency action and remove a maintainer&#39;s privileges. This is=
 only=20
<br>done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something=20
<br>malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity tha=
t=20
<br>it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked -=
=20
<br>all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news cam=
e=20
<br>out, and were only returned several months later once verified=20
<br>communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his=20
<br>GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised.
<br>
<br>Ava
<br>
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; /dev/fd0
<br>&gt; floppy disk guy
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54=E2=80=AFPM UTC David A. Hardin=
g wrote:
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
<br>&gt;      &gt; Please provide justification rather than simply saying &=
quot;I like
<br>&gt;     Bob!&quot;.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appea=
rs to be
<br>&gt;     the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks d=
enote
<br>&gt;     candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Bryan &quot;Kanzure&quot; Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1]=
, Chris Stewart[3],
<br>&gt;     Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
<br>&gt;     Black[11],
<br>&gt;     Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carval=
ho[16]
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], =
Michael
<br>&gt;     Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15],=
 John
<br>&gt;     Carvalho[16]
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
<br>&gt;     /dev/fd0[5][7],
<br>&gt;     Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carva=
lho[16]
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Olaoluwa &quot;Roasbeef&quot; Osuntokun, recommended by Chri=
s Stewart[3], John
<br>&gt;     C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
<br>&gt;     Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Mark &quot;Murch&quot; Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folk=
son[6], Keagan
<br>&gt;     McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Ri=
ard[12],
<br>&gt;     Ava Chow[14]
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - Michael Folkson*
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for &q=
uot;non-dev
<br>&gt;     triaging&quot;, Tonoski proposed himself[18] for &quot;BIP edi=
tor&quot;, and Antoine
<br>&gt;     Riard[12] proposed Seccour for &quot;decentralized PM&quot;.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the abo=
ve
<br>&gt;     candidates had been especially active there, which is listed b=
elow as:
<br>&gt;     total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
<br>&gt;     - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
<br>&gt;     - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
<br>&gt;     - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
<br>&gt;     - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
<br>&gt;     - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     I&#39;ll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the se=
t to have a
<br>&gt;     merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
<br>&gt;     far-along
<br>&gt;     draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Pay=
ments). I
<br>&gt;     don&#39;t think this should be a requirement, but I do think i=
t
<br>&gt;     demonstrates
<br>&gt;     familiarity with the process.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above =
with
<br>&gt;     multiple recommendations from other community participants are=
 fully
<br>&gt;     qualified for the role, so I&#39;ll only provide a detailed ju=
stification
<br>&gt;     for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
<br>&gt;     longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Co=
rallo
<br>&gt;     mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through =
a draft
<br>&gt;     BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of =
all 300
<br>&gt;     pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has re=
viewed
<br>&gt;     drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
<br>&gt;     significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of =
the
<br>&gt;     documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we&#=
39;d ask him
<br>&gt;     to perform as a BIPs editor and it&#39;s something that he&#39=
;s already doing,
<br>&gt;     so I think there&#39;s an excellent fit of person to role.
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     -Dave
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt;     [1]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8=
...@achow101.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoi=
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55859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1OU3uS906r6ueGSX7vlDnA">https://gnusha.org/pi/b=
itcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/</a>
<br>&gt;     &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-=
47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" da=
ta-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gn=
usha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/&a=
mp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw12fzWCAWoAru5u=
dSxp2ozf">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.c=
om/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [2]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106=
...@dashjr.org/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D=
"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoinde=
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866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3V4tobrdlWDX9cdz6X4-Pm">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoi=
ndev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/</a>
<br>&gt;     &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-=
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ource=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1BZwDwHSqXKYB_-0TD=
oSis">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/</a=
>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [3]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a=
...@googlegroups.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirect=
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t;
<br>&gt;     [4]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333=
...@netpurgatory.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirect=
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;
<br>&gt;     [5]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36=
...@googlegroups.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirect=
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t;
<br>&gt;     [6]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2=
...@googlegroups.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirect=
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t;
<br>&gt;     [7]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869=
...@googlegroups.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirect=
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t;
<br>&gt;     [8]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS=
110ut8tX=3DwruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bla=
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aw2OtMQZb20PPB3JKfvoKj_V">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7Y=
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uqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [9] <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@pe=
tertodd.org/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/Z=
gePPvbf...@petertodd.org/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp=
;usg=3DAOvVaw2AP5VO_aJ14Dim4QngEe8F">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePP=
vbf...@petertodd.org/</a>
<br>&gt;     &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG=
7k@petertodd.org/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=
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ndev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D171215585=
9866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0MkpcCr4ys9fJKFx_7AJip">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitco=
indev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [10]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5=
...@mattcorallo.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirectu=
rl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitc=
oindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D=
1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1ACxyI8JAvnrygsXWPSmbE">https://gnusha.org=
/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/</a> &lt;<a href=3D"ht=
tps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcor=
allo.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https=
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5999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2hr_3ajadqsyjMFU3-PnyB">https://gnusha=
.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [11] <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg=
69V@console/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"ht=
tps://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/Z=
gWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;=
usg=3DAOvVaw2Hn0P5YAjTG73Nn88TIWCv">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu3=
2FXzqqg69V@console/</a>
<br>&gt;     &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg6=
9V@console/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"htt=
ps://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/Zg=
WRu32FXzqqg69V@console/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;u=
sg=3DAOvVaw2Hn0P5YAjTG73Nn88TIWCv">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32=
FXzqqg69V@console/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [12]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO=
+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-safered=
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=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0l-u5qlF6fuwkd7iEb9109"=
>https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.c=
om/</a> &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+=
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=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;=
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bHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859=
866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0W1nFmnPJ7F4Df20UvME-v">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoi=
ndev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [13]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a=
...@murch.one/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"=
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6000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw13gj8GZhKl2i4pojnBFOHB">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoind=
ev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/</a>
<br>&gt;     &lt;<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-=
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saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnush=
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rce=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1712155859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0hy7DJLVPIwtO_CoRBec=
jA">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/</a>&g=
t;
<br>&gt;     [14]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f=
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55859866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2Bf_fHGKTArjsMwJ87oGNc">https://gnusha.org/pi/b=
itcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/</a>
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ljG-tNMv">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.c=
om/</a>&gt;
<br>&gt;     [15]
<br>&gt;     <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmI=
BVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH=
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TUtHim">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSB=
Xsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=
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<br>&gt;     [16]
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<br>&gt;     [17]
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