Delivery-date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:36:45 -0800
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2024 18:35:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Weikeng Chen <weikeng.chen@l2iterative.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <b2f2dadc-97b1-4333-8916-426292d5ec8cn@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABaSBaz13bUoHCupXYhmX+yS0dn89f80yx8ZD3uO5-1RiLZJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABaSBaz13bUoHCupXYhmX+yS0dn89f80yx8ZD3uO5-1RiLZJCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: Broken links to the previous mailing list archive
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I have two points.

(1) I think it is a good idea for the Bitcoin mail lists to purchase a=20
domain of its own in the future because it is hard to expect any=20
open-source foundation to long live Bitcoin.=20

(2) From the previous=20
mail https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0A=
tpuaFGVB=3DzhdwQ@mail.gmail.com/,=20
it seems that Linux Foundation may be happy to do some redirects, maybe it=
=20
could be coordinated?

"Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to maintain archive=20
permalinks so that content of historic importance is not lost. Fortunately=
=20
for us while lists.linuxfoundation.org mailman will go down, they have=20
agreed the read-only pipermail archives will remain online."

Weikeng
On Wednesday, November 13, 2024 at 2:55:58=E2=80=AFAM UTC+7 Bryan Bishop wr=
ote:

> Hi,
>
> lists.linuxfoundation.org is no longer hosting the static HTML email
> archives for bitcoin-dev or any other mailing list. We knew that this
> might happen and prepared months ago with the mailing list migration
> and also with various backups:
>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQ=
j_Z...@mail.gmail.com/=20
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzP=
Qj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/>
>
> However, many thousands of links around the web are still pointing to
> the old archive. This is really unfortunate as there is a wealth of
> content in the archive and these links were considered canonical. This
> is a general plea to update any broken links that you might be able to
> fix.
>
> What you can do, options
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> There are a few options for actions that effected content providers can=
=20
> take:
>
> 1) Use `gnusha.org/url` <http://gnusha.org/url>. Explained below.
>
> 2) Replace lists.linuxfoundation.org urls with resolved urls to a new
> location for mailing list archives. More on this below.
>
> 3) Do nothing. Wait and see. It is possible that we can plead our case
> to Linux Foundation and get them to host static archives indefinitely,
> or at least host redirects.
>
> 4) Replace broken links with Wayback Machine urls. Someone told me
> apparently their archive is incomplete? I don't recommend this one
> because I am concerned about stress and strain on the Internet Archive
> Wayback Machine service beyond the additional activity that these
> links would incur. Besides, Wayback is already a highly centralized
> point for internet archival activity and therefore some
> decenteralization is warranted here.
>
>
> gnusha.org/url redirect service
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> This is a redirect service I made that takes a URL parameter and
> redirects. To use it, get a previous url like:
>
> `
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.=
html`=20
> <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472=
.html>
>
> your new url will be:
>
> `
> https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoi=
n-dev/2017-June/014472.html`=20
> <https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitco=
in-dev/2017-June/014472.html>
>
> and it will redirect to a current mailing list archive location for
> that message:
>
> `https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4s$1...@blaine.gmane.org/`=20
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4s$1@blaine.gmane.org/>
>
> It uses a mapping file based on the mailing list archives. I have
> published scripts to make this mapping here:
> https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b
>
> See https://gnusha.org/url for more information. Thank you to Jonas
> Schnelli for suggesting the creation of this redirect service.
>
>
> Manual resolution
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> How to "manually" resolve "without" the gnusha.org/url redirect
> service. Use resolver.py here:
>
> https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b#file-res=
olver-py
> and set RESOLVER_HOST to `https://gnusha.org/url` <https://gnusha.org/url=
>,=20
> also set `resolver
> =3D resolve_locally` to `resolver =3D resolve_remotely`.
>
> This will convert urls from the old LF format to resolved urls like:
> `
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQ=
j_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`=20
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzP=
Qj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/>
> or
> `
> https://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw=
4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`=20
> <https://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfr=
w4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/>
> depending on which public-inbox mirror you choose to use.
>
>
> Why resolve or not
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> I'll elaborate on `gnusha.org/url` <http://gnusha.org/url> vs `
> gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev` <http://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev> style urls.
>
> It is nice and simple to use a find-and-replace with `gnusha.org/url/`=20
> <http://gnusha.org/url/>
> because anyone can easily repeat that exercise and verify the git diff
> before merging the pull request. However, the actual routing is not
> something that is verified by just checking that the `git diff` looks
> sane.
>
> If I was to provide my mapping (I haven't uploaded this yet, but I did
> publish the scripts I used to make it, hopefully someone will
> re-generate it to verify my work), then someone could write a script
> and/or cross-verify that all of the replacements are valid according
> to the mapping, if we were to use the destination urls instead of the
> redirect service for this pull request. Then someone would be able to
> verify that kind of pull request.
>
> There are other further issues though, like content malleability,
> wrong redirect link injection, service provider compromise... instead
> of referencing by Message-ID maybe in the future we can reference by
> email hash.... But now I'm dreaming.
>
>
>
> - Bryan
> https://x.com/kanzure
>

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I have two points.<div><br /></div><div>(1) I think it is a good idea for t=
he Bitcoin mail lists to purchase a domain of its own in the future because=
 it is hard to expect any open-source foundation to long live Bitcoin.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br /></div><div>(2) From the previous mail=C2=A0https://gnus=
ha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaz9OTSVa1KNk0GOrH3T-kRF_7OPVu0AtpuaFGVB=3DzhdwQ@=
mail.gmail.com/, it seems that Linux Foundation may be happy to do some red=
irects, maybe it could be coordinated?</div><div><br /></div><div>"<span st=
yle=3D"font-size: 13px; font-family: monospace; white-space-collapse: prese=
rve; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Linux Foundation has either offered or agreed to=
 maintain archive
permalinks so that content of historic importance is not lost. Fortunately
for us while lists.linuxfoundation.org mailman will go down, they have
agreed the read-only pipermail archives will remain online."</span><br /><b=
r /></div><div>Weikeng</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Wednesday, November 13, 2024 at 2:55:58=E2=80=AFAM UT=
C+7 Bryan Bishop wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding=
-left: 1ex;">Hi,
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
ofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=
=3Dhttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428=
229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0eNywDR_qdzyAGN2tjvWL2">lists.linuxfoundation.org</a=
> is no longer hosting the static HTML email
<br>archives for bitcoin-dev or any other mailing list. We knew that this
<br>might happen and prepared months ago with the mailing list migration
<br>and also with various backups:
<br><a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4p=
E9b=3DJZJPzPQj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp=
s://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v%2Brmpfrw4pE9b%3DJZJPzPQj_ZU=
iBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp=
;usg=3DAOvVaw3Yjp_6ZyNg8tPHrZ1aP4rU">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaS=
BaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/</a>
<br>
<br>However, many thousands of links around the web are still pointing to
<br>the old archive. This is really unfortunate as there is a wealth of
<br>content in the archive and these links were considered canonical. This
<br>is a general plea to update any broken links that you might be able to
<br>fix.
<br>
<br>What you can do, options
<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
<br>
<br>There are a few options for actions that effected content providers can=
 take:
<br>
<br>1) Use `<a href=3D"http://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dht=
tp://gnusha.org/url&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=
=3DAOvVaw0QMfM5Jvv0Hp5AVxeXnigG">gnusha.org/url`</a>. Explained below.
<br>
<br>2) Replace <a href=3D"http://lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=
=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://lists.linuxfoundation.org&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=
=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0eNywDR_qdzyAGN2tjvWL2">lists.linuxfoun=
dation.org</a> urls with resolved urls to a new
<br>location for mailing list archives. More on this below.
<br>
<br>3) Do nothing. Wait and see. It is possible that we can plead our case
<br>to Linux Foundation and get them to host static archives indefinitely,
<br>or at least host redirects.
<br>
<br>4) Replace broken links with Wayback Machine urls. Someone told me
<br>apparently their archive is incomplete? I don&#39;t recommend this one
<br>because I am concerned about stress and strain on the Internet Archive
<br>Wayback Machine service beyond the additional activity that these
<br>links would incur. Besides, Wayback is already a highly centralized
<br>point for internet archival activity and therefore some
<br>decenteralization is warranted here.
<br>
<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" da=
ta-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://gnu=
sha.org/url&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0=
QMfM5Jvv0Hp5AVxeXnigG">gnusha.org/url</a> redirect service
<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<br>
<br>This is a redirect service I made that takes a URL parameter and
<br>redirects. To use it, get a previous url like:
<br>
<br>`<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/201=
7-June/014472.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://lists.linuxfoundatio=
n.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2lDPFd0jkf3qPXfNhXb8c6">https://lists.=
linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html`</a>
<br>
<br>your new url will be:
<br>
<br>`<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pi=
permail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps=
://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2=
017-June/014472.html&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=
=3DAOvVaw3wHtoR1D8BNuEbPfyohOWD">https://gnusha.org/url/https://lists.linux=
foundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-June/014472.html`</a>
<br>
<br>and it will redirect to a current mailing list archive location for
<br>that message:
<br>
<br>`<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4s$1@blaine.gmane.=
org/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4=
s$1@blaine.gmane.org/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=
=3DAOvVaw3ny8mncSRmb0nRLdSPey0Q">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ogoa6o$o4=
s$1...@blaine.gmane.org/`</a>
<br>
<br>It uses a mapping file based on the mailing list archives. I have
<br>published scripts to make this mapping here:
<br><a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434a=
db2b" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc5834=
4ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;us=
g=3DAOvVaw2P31e8Vo4gyQYeOb86tg0S">https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc583=
44ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b</a>
<br>
<br>See <a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollo=
w" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps=
://gnusha.org/url&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DA=
OvVaw0Utv8IMrSZYBWW4HoxJzvu">https://gnusha.org/url</a> for more informatio=
n. Thank you to Jonas
<br>Schnelli for suggesting the creation of this redirect service.
<br>
<br>
<br>Manual resolution
<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<br>
<br>How to &quot;manually&quot; resolve &quot;without&quot; the <a href=3D"=
http://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirect=
url=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://gnusha.org/url&amp=
;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0QMfM5Jvv0Hp5AVx=
eXnigG">gnusha.org/url</a> redirect
<br>service. Use resolver.py here:
<br><a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434a=
db2b#file-resolver-py" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirect=
url=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gist.github.com/k=
anzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b%23file-resolver-py&amp;source=3Dgma=
il&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1PIfX-0erhERdDvER-gUQZ">https=
://gist.github.com/kanzure/4e7bcc58344ceaa1a668e65a434adb2b#file-resolver-p=
y</a>
<br>and set RESOLVER_HOST to `<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"=
_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url=
?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://gnusha.org/url&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D173155=
1428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0Utv8IMrSZYBWW4HoxJzvu">https://gnusha.org/url`<=
/a>, also set `resolver
<br>=3D resolve_locally` to `resolver =3D resolve_remotely`.
<br>
<br>This will convert urls from the old LF format to resolved urls like:
<br>`<a href=3D"https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4=
pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofol=
low" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhtt=
ps://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v%2Brmpfrw4pE9b%3DJZJPzPQj_Z=
UiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&am=
p;usg=3DAOvVaw3Yjp_6ZyNg8tPHrZ1aP4rU">https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CABa=
SBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`</a>
<br>or
<br>`<a href=3D"https://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj=
6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=3DJZJPzPQj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=
=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6y=
SBx4v%2Brmpfrw4pE9b%3DJZJPzPQj_ZUiBg1HGFyA@mail.gmail.com/&amp;source=3Dgma=
il&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2UzGD6BJFpXpZyiRmnq8tJ">https=
://mailing-list.bitcoindevs.xyz/bitcoindev/CABaSBaxDjj6ySBx4v+rmpfrw4pE9b=
=3DJZJPzPQj_Z...@mail.gmail.com/`</a>
<br>depending on which public-inbox mirror you choose to use.
<br>
<br>
<br>Why resolve or not
<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<br>
<br>I&#39;ll elaborate on `<a href=3D"http://gnusha.org/url" target=3D"_bla=
nk" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=
=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://gnusha.org/url&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428=
229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw0QMfM5Jvv0Hp5AVxeXnigG">gnusha.org/url`</a> vs `<a h=
ref=3D"http://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" =
data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://g=
nusha.org/pi/bitcoindev&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;u=
sg=3DAOvVaw2AveXJukwC3yGsmU2vGT-q">gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev`</a> style urls=
.
<br>
<br>It is nice and simple to use a find-and-replace with `<a href=3D"http:/=
/gnusha.org/url/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=
=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttp://gnusha.org/url/&amp;s=
ource=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428229000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2mOk27IPa3SdjHB_nf=
2o5C">gnusha.org/url/`</a>
<br>because anyone can easily repeat that exercise and verify the git diff
<br>before merging the pull request. However, the actual routing is not
<br>something that is verified by just checking that the `git diff` looks
<br>sane.
<br>
<br>If I was to provide my mapping (I haven&#39;t uploaded this yet, but I =
did
<br>publish the scripts I used to make it, hopefully someone will
<br>re-generate it to verify my work), then someone could write a script
<br>and/or cross-verify that all of the replacements are valid according
<br>to the mapping, if we were to use the destination urls instead of the
<br>redirect service for this pull request. Then someone would be able to
<br>verify that kind of pull request.
<br>
<br>There are other further issues though, like content malleability,
<br>wrong redirect link injection, service provider compromise... instead
<br>of referencing by Message-ID maybe in the future we can reference by
<br>email hash.... But now I&#39;m dreaming.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>- Bryan
<br><a href=3D"https://x.com/kanzure" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" da=
ta-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://x.=
com/kanzure&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1731551428230000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2=
loO7aYGb5cX971FxeBAXl">https://x.com/kanzure</a>
<br></blockquote></div>

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