Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <pete@petertodd.org>) id 1YM026-0007bc-NE
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of petertodd.org
	designates 62.13.148.161 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=62.13.148.161; envelope-from=pete@petertodd.org;
	helo=outmail148161.authsmtp.com; 
Received: from outmail148161.authsmtp.com ([62.13.148.161])
	by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	id 1YM025-0008B0-0X for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 +0000
Received: from mail-c235.authsmtp.com (mail-c235.authsmtp.com [62.13.128.235])
	by punt15.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1CK6Xah098532;
	Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:33 GMT
Received: from savin.petertodd.org (75-119-251-161.dsl.teksavvy.com
	[75.119.251.161]) (authenticated bits=128)
	by mail.authsmtp.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/) with ESMTP id t1CK6TAp005009
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO);
	Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:32 GMT
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:06:29 -0500
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: Alan Reiner <etotheipi@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150212200629.GB20964@savin.petertodd.org>
References: <CANEZrP2uVT_UqJbzyQcEbiS78T68Jj2cH7OGXv5QtYiCwArDdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE28kUQ87jWhq1p6RK1eKEuEP1ERxN_P2SS0=YsFEGAqRyMPLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANEZrP2H2T2QFZceCc=YzwwiApJy7kY7FN0LoAZODGbW12SYsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAE28kURa8g3YTPi-GHKAt4v0csxXe=QhGhV3aQcDZGSr=Lb7RQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANEZrP2hAUsRfeXUo-DLiiRmG5uJcwFuP4=o1S6Fb7ts5Ud=bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADJgMztrzMh8=Y6SD-JV1hpTTbGB8Y2u=59bQhGtF6h3+Ei_Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<356E7F6E-300A-4127-9885-2183FB1DE447@gmail.com>
	<54DCECE4.3020802@riseup.net>
	<CAJfRnm4OBEJPW-6CiY5fQ1kUYppDnTtZfLF_YpBEaB8ovzx9og@mail.gmail.com>
	<54DCFBB5.3080202@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <54DCFBB5.3080202@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15)
X-Server-Quench: a3c87848-b2f2-11e4-b396-002590a15da7
X-AuthReport-Spam: If SPAM / abuse - report it at:
	http://www.authsmtp.com/abuse
X-AuthRoute: OCd2Yg0TA1ZNQRgX IjsJECJaVQIpKltL GxAVKBZePFsRUQkR
	aAdMdwAUHlAWAgsB AmMbWVReUFt7WmE7 bA9PbARUfEhLXhtr
	VklWR1pVCwQmRR1y fRh6I1lydwBGeHc+ ZEZnXHEVDUcpfUF1
	RkZJR29QZ3phaTUb TRJbfgVJcANIexZF O1F6ACIKLwdSbGoL
	NQ4vNDcwO3BTJTpY RgYVKF8UXXNDBDMk QxkJEHAlDAgLSih7
	MURgcwZaRFwabi0A 
X-Authentic-SMTP: 61633532353630.1023:706
X-AuthFastPath: 0 (Was 255)
X-AuthSMTP-Origin: 75.119.251.161/587
X-AuthVirus-Status: No virus detected - but ensure you scan with your own
	anti-virus system.
X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
	sender-domain
	-0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
X-Headers-End: 1YM025-0008B0-0X
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] replace-by-fee v0.10.0rc4
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 20:06:42 -0000


--QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 08:15:01PM +0100, Alan Reiner wrote:
> The Bitcoin network achieves something that we didnt' think was possible
> 10 years ago:  a totally trustless, decentralized ledger.  The cost?  It
> takes time for the decentralized network to reach consensus that
> transactions "happened".  That is quite literally the trade-off that we
> make: you can centralize things by putting a bank in the middle and
> getting instant confirmation, or you decentralize and let the network
> reach consensus over time without the central authority.   If you want
> instant confirmations, you're going to need to add centralization
> because Bitcoin never offered it.  I support efforts to dispel any such
> myths as soon as possible and encourage building robust solutions
> (payment channels, insured zero-conf services, etc.).

Speaking of, a relatively simple thing that would help dispel these
notions would be if some wallets supported replace-by-fee-using
fee-bumping and an "attempt undo" button. Armory is an (unfortunately!)
special case because it uses a full node and has good privacy
guarantees, but most wallets could implement this by just sending the
doublespend transactions to any node advertising either the
replace-by-fee or GETUTXO's service bits.

1) https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/the_doghouse_cr.html

--=20
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
00000000000000000a1fb2fd17f5d8735a8a0e7aae841c95a12e82b934c4ac92

--QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: Digital signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQGrBAEBCACVBQJU3QfAXhSAAAAAABUAQGJsb2NraGFzaEBiaXRjb2luLm9yZzAw
MDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwYTE2YmNjNzY2MzYxNDE0NTcxYTVmOTYxNjk4YWNjNDZj
MjdiZDc5YzI2YWMxNWMvFIAAAAAAFQARcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JncGV0
ZUBwZXRlcnRvZC5vcmcACgkQJIFAPaXwkfspkggAgw1lX1Oy6yx67rW20by4lKY/
WC2h+kJpK229iFRkRUkIR9FWA+fVC+OCimlzdeoN1CECmTRy61w+CCp/9DUFf675
+dXlNMe6HexxIxaL1Fqkp2KmGa+LjukgwwEEpYGNaSqHr+UnqD3vM+3NlJGLCG2L
qP1shCJesIH551+7mbdyi+NQiZ2OyMxOlmbLUARJSTXMHE7HJC2/F4Lww5hZ35cw
XndvzEhfL99mQqWMT/6nKBK2vjeRgoOQuzFRdOvSaRMcXhMBEJ42yXa1pugf0bvo
IuhxsxHTJdyN1eGtQpISYtnQOdFMZKOHbl/tgBNwkGU1Sr7M0Ix2GbpBA9LH5A==
=fNzv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--QTprm0S8XgL7H0Dt--